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NONSENSE: Conspiracy theories, nonsense and cranks (not exclusive)

worthysmokers said:
What he’s saying is, if as you believe they know there will be injured people and it’s accepted as a small %, then why are they trying to surpress the diagnosis.

Why don’t they just say, “yes I’m very sorry it is because of the vaccine, but you’re in the 0.022%.
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How, exactly, are they "suppressing" it?

Stop using loaded terms.
 
mockingbirdred said:
How, exactly, are they "suppressing" it?

Stop using loaded terms.
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Fergie said; “when that diagnosis is extremely difficult to get?”

So I think he’s saying if it’s widely accepted as you say, why is is the diagnosis extremely difficult to get?, surley this would also mean people give up and accept the wrong diagnosis keeping numbers lower?
 
worthysmokers said:
Fergie said; “when that diagnosis is extremely difficult to get?”

So I think he’s saying if it’s widely accepted as you say, why is is the diagnosis extremely difficult to get?, surley this would also mean people give up and accept the wrong diagnosis keeping numbers lower?
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Have you been to a GP recently mate? Its fucking hard to get a diagnosis for anything.

I've been trying to help someone get diagnosed as an adult for ADHD for the last year, for example - it's fucking impossible. The NHS is hugely overloaded, understaffed, and underfunded. They've cut services left right and centre, making getting a diagnosis for anything difficult.

So are you really, genuinely wondering what could possibly be the reason for it being difficult to get diagnosed with a condition that has already been demonstrated to be very rare, and that is being demanded by absolute cranks that are happy to waste medical professionals time and resources in pursuit of their ridiculous agenda?

No, you're right, it's definitely government "suppression" thats the problem and not a decade of Tory underfunding, and a massive misinfirmation campaign by people who won't ever fucking learn.
 
mockingbirdred said:
Have you been to a GP recently mate? Its fucking hard to get a diagnosis for anything.

I've been trying to help someone get diagnosed as an adult for ADHD for the last year, for example - it's fucking impossible. The NHS is hugely overloaded, understaffed, and underfunded. They've cut services left right and centre, making getting a diagnosis for anything difficult.

So are you really, genuinely wondering what could possibly be the reason for it being difficult to get diagnosed with a condition that has already been demonstrated to be very rare, and that is being demanded by absolute cranks that are happy to waste medical professionals time and resources in pursuit of their ridiculous agenda?

No, you're right, it's definitely government "suppression" thats the problem and not a decade of Tory underfunding, and a massive misinfirmation campaign by people who won't ever fucking learn.
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No, I just understand what he means :confused:
 
worthysmokers said:
No, I just understand what he means :confused:
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So does he but he’s being his usual contrary self. Wants respect when his ‘ profession’ is involved but seems fine with dismissing others in theirs when it suits him. I honestly don’t know how anyone can watch that discussion and dismiss it so easily.

Oh and comparing getting an ADHD diagnosis to something that’s possibly fatal is ridiculous, one kind of trumps the other for me especially when it has possible links to a mass medical intervention.
 
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fergieschewy said:
So does he but he’s being his usual contrary self. Wants respect when his ‘ profession’ is involved but seems fine with dismissing others in theirs when it suits him. I honestly don’t know how anyone can watch that discussion and dismiss it so easily.

Oh and comparing getting an ADHD diagnosis to something that’s possibly fatal is ridiculous, one kind of trumps the other for me especially when it has possible links to a mass medical intervention.
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I honestly don’t know why you expected anything different, You should know his MO by now.

Sorry to hear about your brother by the way, he’s been through some shit because of this safe and effective vaccine that has caused ‘absolutely zero issues’
 
Old Iron Balls said:
I honestly don’t know why you expected anything different, You should know his MO by now.

Sorry to hear about your brother by the way, he’s been through some shit because of this safe and effective vaccine that has caused ‘absolutely zero issues’
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Aye I know, he’s one cherry picking twat at times. People may think that my brother in law is damaged by his jabs then that is my sole reason for commenting, it’s not. My daughter had hers to go on holiday ffs, a then 22 year old fitness fanatic with post Covid antibodies so I worry about her and millions like her. I watched a 17 year old lad drop ‘ dead’ at football training just after he’d had his to go away with his parents , luckily saved by 6 bangs of the defib and heart massage.
An interesting bit in our Adam’s piece was the fact that his heart problems don’t stem from lifestyle as you’d expect , fit as a fiddle. Like he said there have been something like 75,000 reports of adverse reactions in the Pfizer one alone, cause for investigation by anyone’s standards but it’s dismissed by those that aren’t too keen on pulling back the curtain. Maybe we should all “ just move on “ from that eh.
 
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fergieschewy said:
Aye I know, he’s one cherry picking twat at times. People may think that my brother in law is damaged by his jabs then that is my sole reason for commenting, it’s not. My daughter had hers to go on holiday ffs, a then 22 year old fitness fanatic with post Covid antibodies so I worry about her and millions like her. I watched a 17 year old lad drop ‘ dead’ at football training just after he’d had his to go away with his pa
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It’s pointless, he’s never ever going to agree with you or cede ground in any argument, all of your sources are full of shit and his aren’t. As I’ve said a few times he’s exactly like MKR (cunt) but with added ChatGPT, stop wasting your finite time and energy on him. When you’re claiming the vaccines caused zero issues yet one of them was banned in various countries…like they do for safe and effective medicines.


Yep, I hear you, it seems most who I talk to know someone who had issues post jab, One of my mates had a stroke and lost sight in one eye.
 
Old Iron Balls said:
all of your sources are full of shit and his aren’t.
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You've finally realised it.

As for the rest of you, I'll just stop posting if you fucking fannies are going to get so upset again. I really don't give a shit. No amount of circle jerking bullshit from all your favourite Youtube and Twitter sources is going to make you right.

Enjoy yourselves.
 
mockingbirdred said:
You've finally realised it.

As for the rest of you, I'll just stop posting if you fucking fannies are going to get so upset again. I really don't give a shit. No amount of circle jerking bullshit from all your favourite Youtube and Twitter sources is going to make you right.

Enjoy yourselves.
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Wonder how many times you’ve replied since the last time you said “ I’m not replying any more “ 😂 .
 
Mockers will also argue the Beatles were shit and genuinely believe he’s right, in my opinion that’s like being a musical flat earther.
 
He must be one of the few that actually believes that LHO was a lone gunman, think Sir Alex disagrees on that and he’s very well up on that subject.
 
fergieschewy said:
He must be one of the few that actually believes that LHO was a lone gunman, think Sir Alex disagrees on that and he’s very well up on that subject.
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He tosses the phrase ‘conspiracy theorist’ (and ‘anti vaxxer’) around then contradicts himself by suggesting a conspiracy when it comes to Grusch and co.

Best ignored as he just wants an argument, nothing more.
 
mockingbirdred said:
So, in short, there isn't a demonstrable link between vaccines and an increase in heart conditions, except in very rare cases - which is absolutely no different to any other vaccine ever created ever and information that has been available to the general public since the very get go.
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I'm going to help you out here, because you've your head buried so far in the sand of denial, you actually sound like a deluded denialist crank yourself. Your problem, that you're blindsided to as an academic, is that it's the practitioners on the ground, dealing with the cases and observing what is happening, that are the experts. Not the ivory tower academics, who perform questionable "peer review" that leads to retraction in many cases.

So, what are those practitioners seeing in Australia?

Australia's Medicare Benefits Schedule created service code 63399 for claim reimbursement in late 2021. This service code is for an MRI test that detects mRNA vaccine induced Myocarditis, in borderline cases where ECG, Troponin & X-Ray aren't able to definitively determine diagnosis. This code was commissioned because, wait for it, there is a demonstrable link between the mRNA vaccines & the cardiac conditions that has been observed on the ground by healthcare practitioners! Do you think they just conjure up these tests and services for the "bantz" otherwise? Do you think the Australia Department Of Health watched a "Conspiracy Crank" Youtube video, "fell for the grift" and decided to create it then? Or do you, once again with your misplaced hubris, think you know better than the Australia Department Of Health?

Short answer, you don't.




Now, the service was to end on 31st December 2022, but wait, what happened? That's right, they extended it until 31st December 2023!




Do you think a service code gets extended if there's no demonstrable link between a vaccination product and an adverse effect? If they were so sure of the safety of the vaccine, surely the service would have been de-commissioned because, well, there's nobody claiming the test and so pointless retaining it?

Wrong Mockers! It's because there is a demonstrable link between the two.

So how many times was service code 63399 claimed against in the past 2 years?

Over 2,000 times. For a test to diagnose borderline outlier cases. "Rare" is it?

If even half of those tests were returned positive, it would be a thousand too many. And that doesn't take into account the diagnoses that were possible with traditional non-MRI methods.




Now we're approaching Feb 2024, and even I thought they'd have decommissioned the service now, given they'd have whatever data they think they needed by this point. But imagine my shock! The service code was extended again until the end of 2024.

Wow Mockers! For an mRNA vaccine that has, and I quote you:
in billions of vaccines administered there were zero - I'll say that again, zero - complications
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, they aren't half flogging this MRI test are they?! Maybe, just maybe, you're completely out of your depth on this?




So who else does Mockers think he knows better than? None other than the former President of the Australian Medical Association, Dr. Kerryn Phelps!


Not just her experiencing a COVID vaccine related injury. But her wife too! Two injuries in the same household! How could this possibly happen when Mockers tells us there have been "Zero" complications to the vaccines?! Surely if the vaccine injuries/deaths were so "rare", it would be statistically improbable that there would be two in the same household?!

Or perhaps, possibly, they're not as "rare" as Mockers falsely claims?

I'm not expecting Mockers to watch the above video as his world view would be smashed to smithereens, but I would strongly encourage others to do so. And I would particularly pay close attention to around 2:10 onwards. Because that important question asked by the anchor is why Mockers falsely believes the bit in bold below...

mockingbirdred said:
And you are failing to acknowledge that there aren't any reviews into the areas you want reviews in because the people who are "Life Sciences Academic" - whatever that means - deem those studies to be pointless and a waste of resources.
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Well Mockers, if you knew what a Life Scientist was, you might have enough of a clue to not have such a grossly misinformed opinion as you do now. Hell, if you were one, instead of a digital effects person, then you might even understand why your position is laughably delusional.

The claim that there are no reviews above is in fact a lie.

Despite the lack of doctors and scientists speaking out for fear of the regulatory reprisal intimated by the news anchor and Dr. Phelps, fortunately there are more and more who are speaking out & publishing about the links:

Peer reviewed.

Peer reviewed.

Peer reviewed.

Peer reviewed. Likely underestimating the effect given study limitations & short duration.

That's just for the Myocarditis links. I've already shared the peer reviewed immune tolerance impacts of elevated IgG4 from the mRNA vaccines upthread. And the DNA contamination in the mRNA vaccines.

mockingbirdred said:
The risks around the vaccine were calculated and deemed acceptable and, lo and behold, in billions of vaccines administered there were zero - I'll say that again, zero - complications. A tiny percentage of people suffered adverse effects. Yes, that was to be expected.
Everyone else in the world has moved on with their lives, except for the couple of thousand people who have linked up on social media and who already had a paranoid distrust of the government/pharmacies prior to Covid anyway and are using what everyone else took as an acceptable risk as evidence in their utterly delusional theories.

There is literally no story here.
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This, above, is the most criminally negligent rhetoric. "Billions of doses administered and zero complications". Even if that were true (narrator: it isn't), you don't fucking stick that shit into the wider population without long term clinical safety data. When you do a Life Sciences degree Mockers, you learn in Pharma 101, that 'long term' means 5-7 years through the four phases. At least.

If you do stick that shit into billions of people without long term clinical safety data, you end up with the excess deaths observed now in the likes of the EUROMOMO paediatric data, even years after the peak of the pandemic.

And back to the original point, you end up with more punters collapsing in the stands. Again, just to labour the point. That doesn't mean that *every* punter in the stands that collapses is because of the vaccine. But it is criminally negligent to bury one's head in the sand at this point and not investigate thoroughly and properly what the effect is.

We get it Mockers. You were one of the most vociferous during the Pandemic about "The Science" and "The Cranks". We get you lined up diligently, put yourself at risk, perhaps encouraged others to do the same. It's unpalatable to consider that you might have put yourself and loved ones at risk, so it's easier to bury one's head in the sand and pretend there's nothing to see here. We understand that you have to double, triple and quadruple down as the data and evidence gradually crumbles the narrative around you. Some of us took the jabs, and then changed our view with the data. Others will have to die on the hill.

But do yourself a favour. Stop pretending you're as informed on this topic as you really are. The Australian Department Of Health and the former President Of the Australian Medical Association, among a growing list of others, disagree with you.

You would do well to listen...
 
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stratabacca said:
We know that athletes are fitter these days, especially top class athletes and athletes in general are pushing their bodies harder and harder to compete. The stakes are higher than they have ever been and with the pressure and money that can be made, and with more athletes pushing harder, there are bound to be more cases of people pushing to much and ending up with serious problem. Every human body has a limit and that limit is being pushed to extremes and it’s not just at the top level where this is happening, the competition down the levels is increasing for those who haven’t made it yet, and medical monitoring is no where near as robust.

The above coupled with changing protocol at sports events regarding medical incidents in the crowd, more attention is being paid to incidents that have always happened with large crowds of people, but we never got to hear about it. Throw in the side effects and problems we are now hearing about with the covid vaccines and it’s a conspiracy theorists busman’s holiday, when it’s a combination of events and makes logical sense when you think about it, and not just because of one specific cause which some people are adamant it is.
Click to expand...

I refer the honourable gentlemen to my two detailed responses to Mockers.

There is sufficient signal to warrant a detailed independent investigation, with no vested interest from the pharmaceutical industry, government or public health regulators.
 
Krom said:
I'm going to help you out here, because you've your head buried so far in the sand of denial, you actually sound like a deluded denialist crank yourself. Your problem, that you're blindsided to as an academic, is that it's the practitioners on the ground, dealing with the cases and observing what is happening, that are the experts. Not the ivory tower academics, who perform questionable "peer review" that leads to retraction in many cases.

So, what are those practitioners seeing in Australia?

Australia's Medicare Benefits Schedule created service code 63399 for claim reimbursement in late 2021. This service code is for an MRI test that detects mRNA vaccine induced Myocarditis, in borderline cases where ECG, Troponin & X-Ray aren't able to definitively determine diagnosis. This code was commissioned because, wait for it, there is a demonstrable link between the mRNA vaccines & the cardiac conditions that has been observed on the ground by healthcare practitioners! Do you think they just conjure up these tests and services for the "bantz" otherwise? Do you think the Australia Department Of Health watched a "Conspiracy Crank" Youtube video, "fell for the grift" and decided to create it then? Or do you, once again with your misplaced hubris, think you know better than the Australia Department Of Health?

Short answer, you don't.




Now, the service was to end on 31st December 2022, but wait, what happened? That's right, they extended it until 31st December 2023!




Do you think a service code gets extended if there's no demonstrable link between a vaccination product and an adverse effect? If they were so sure of the safety of the vaccine, surely the service would have been de-commissioned because, well, there's nobody claiming the test and so pointless retaining it?

Wrong Mockers! It's because there is a demonstrable link between the two.

So how many times was service code 63399 claimed against in the past 2 years?

Over 2,000 times. For a test to diagnose borderline outlier cases. "Rare" is it?

If even half of those tests were returned positive, it would be a thousand too many. And that doesn't take into account the diagnoses that were possible with traditional non-MRI methods.




Now we're approaching Feb 2024, and even I thought they'd have decommissioned the service now, given they'd have whatever data they think they needed by this point. But imagine my shock! The service code was extended again until the end of 2024.

Wow Mockers! For an mRNA vaccine that has, and I quote you:

, they aren't half flogging this MRI test are they?! Maybe, just maybe, you're completely out of your depth on this?




So who else does Mockers think he knows better than? None other than the former President of the Australian Medical Association, Dr. Kerryn Phelps!


Not just her experiencing a COVID vaccine related injury. But her wife too! Two injuries in the same household! How could this possibly happen when Mockers tells us there have been "Zero" complications to the vaccines?! Surely if the vaccine injuries/deaths were so "rare", it would be statistically improbable that there would be two in the same household?!

Or perhaps, possibly, they're not as "rare" as Mockers falsely claims?

I'm not expecting Mockers to watch the above video as his world view would be smashed to smithereens, but I would strongly encourage others to do so. And I would particularly pay close attention to around 2:10 onwards. Because that important question asked by the anchor is why Mockers falsely believes the bit in bold below...



Well Mockers, if you knew what a Life Scientist was, you might have enough of a clue to not have such a grossly misinformed opinion as you do now. Hell, if you were one, instead of a digital effects person, then you might even understand why your position is laughably delusional.

The claim that there are no reviews above is in fact a lie.

Despite the lack of doctors and scientists speaking out for fear of the regulatory reprisal intimated by the news anchor and Dr. Phelps, fortunately there are more and more who are speaking out & publishing about the links:

Peer reviewed.

Peer reviewed.

Peer reviewed.

Peer reviewed. Likely underestimating the effect given study limitations & short duration.

That's just for the Myocarditis links. I've already shared the peer reviewed immune tolerance impacts of elevated IgG4 from the mRNA vaccines upthread. And the DNA contamination in the mRNA vaccines.


This, above, is the most criminally negligent rhetoric. "Billions of doses administered and zero complications". Even if that were true (narrator: it isn't), you don't fucking stick that shit into the wider population without long term clinical safety data. When you do a Life Sciences degree Mockers, you learn in Pharma 101, that 'long term' means 5-7 years through the four phases. At least.

If you do stick that shit into billions of people without long term clinical safety data, you end up with the excess deaths observed now in the likes of the EUROMOMO paediatric data, even years after the peak of the pandemic.

And back to the original point, you end up with more punters collapsing in the stands. Again, just to labour the point. That doesn't mean that *every* punter in the stands that collapses is because of the vaccine. But it is criminally negligent to bury one's head in the sand at this point and not investigate thoroughly and properly what the effect is.

We get it Mockers. You were one of the most vociferous during the Pandemic about "The Science" and "The Cranks". We get you lined up diligently, put yourself at risk, perhaps encouraged others to do the same. It's unpalatable to consider that you might have put yourself and loved ones at risk, so it's easier to bury one's head in the sand and pretend there's nothing to see here. We understand that you have to double, triple and quadruple down as the data and evidence gradually crumbles the narrative around you. Some of us took the jabs, and then changed our view with the data. Others will have to die on the hill.

But do yourself a favour. Stop pretending you're as informed on this topic as you really are. The Australian Department Of Health and the former President Of the Australian Medical Association, among a growing list of others, disagree with you.

You would do well to listen...
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Probably another one you won’t get a response to.
 
Top draw evidence based post as per usual Krom, thanks for taking the time to put all of that together.

I was surprised to see MBR not engage with your previous posts on this subject given he’s “all over” the covid and vaccine threads, apparently.

Like you touched on you’ll have people wanting to justify their decisions and willing to die on Mount Covid, so it won’t make much difference to him I think.

Also, and more importantly - It’s a shit show by whoever decided to move this thread that your post is basically in the forum bin and people will continue to be misinformed by not seeing it.
 
Old Iron Balls said:
Top draw evidence based post as per usual Krom, thanks for taking the time to put all of that together.

I was surprised to see MBR not engage with your previous posts on this subject given he’s “all over” the covid and vaccine threads, apparently.

Like you touched on you’ll have people wanting to justify their decisions and willing to die on Mount Covid, so it won’t make much difference to him I think.

Also, and more importantly - It’s a shit show by whoever decided to move this thread that your post is basically in the forum bin and people will continue to be misinformed by not seeing it.
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Considering the crap that gets left on the main forum, posted by the likes of Wayne.
 
fergieschewy said:
Probably another one you won’t get a response to.
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On the contrary, I'll respond to Krom because he - despite the fact that I can already sense that I'm going to disagree with a lot of what he's written, and have no doubt been deliberately taken out of context as is so often the case when arguing this subject - can at the very least put forward an argument based on evidence that doesn't just devolve into pointless ad hominems, or me having to explain how rational thinking works just so people can continue to argue with me about it.

I'm going to help you out here, because you've your head buried so far in the sand of denial, you actually sound like a deluded denialist crank yourself. Your problem, that you're blindsided to as an academic, is that it's the practitioners on the ground, dealing with the cases and observing what is happening, that are the experts. Not the ivory tower academics, who perform questionable "peer review" that leads to retraction in many cases.
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Ok, first point - nothing in that linked Nature article mentions retractions about vaccine safety data, or anything similar.

In fact, I suspect that what they're actually talking about is more the kind of articles that I have consistently rallied against - deliberate misinformation, unverified sources, vague evidence-less abstracts, etc. If you care to actually look further into what that article is talking about and follow the threads - they mention the name Joachim Boldt as being the worst offender, who now holds the record for most retractions, and then look at the work that is being retracted you'll find that it's nothing to do with Covid. The bloke is an anaesthesiologist: https://www.bjanaesthesia.org/article/S0007-0912(20)30163-X/fulltext

So whilst that's an interesting article on surface level, there is absolutley nothign in there that suggests it's discussing covid vaccine data. At all. To suggest it is is a link that you have decided upon. It's dealing with fraudulent research, nothing more, and the only example it references directly has literally nothign to do with Covid - go check the titles of his papers.

So, what are those practitioners seeing in Australia?

Australia's Medicare Benefits Schedule created service code 63399 for claim reimbursement in late 2021. This service code is for an MRI test that detects mRNA vaccine induced Myocarditis, in borderline cases where ECG, Troponin & X-Ray aren't able to definitively determine diagnosis. This code was commissioned because, wait for it, there is a demonstrable link between the mRNA vaccines & the cardiac conditions that has been observed on the ground by healthcare practitioners! Do you think they just conjure up these tests and services for the "bantz" otherwise? Do you think the Australia Department Of Health watched a "Conspiracy Crank" Youtube video, "fell for the grift" and decided to create it then? Or do you, once again with your misplaced hubris, think you know better than the Australia Department Of Health?

Short answer, you don't.



Click to expand...

Of course there's a demonstrable link, how else would they be able to come up with the figures I mentioned earlier if there wasn't?

There's a couple of interesting points in that fact sheet though which, I will agree, clearly states that the purpose is to test for myocarditis related to vaccine use. It's this: "the patient had symptom onset within 21 days of a mRNA COVID-19 vaccine administration;" and "Applicable not more than once in a patient’s lifetime".

So, maybe I'm reading it wrong, but to me that suggests that A) they're only treating myocarditis cases if they occur within 21 days of a vaccination - which is to say that if it occurs later than 21 days, it's reasonable to assume that it's NOT been brought on by the vaccine and is in fact something else - and B) that they're only allowing people to do this once per their lifetime. Again, perhaps I'm reading this wrong, but does that not suggest a reluctance to indulge people making these claims? Does it not hint that there are people who are claiming this and want multiple MRI scans to try and get the "evidence" they desire? I admit I'm reading between the lines a little, but it's interesting that they make these very specific stipulations.

This has never been about whether or not certain people have negative side effects from the covid vaccine - I have never, ever disputed that - it's been about how many is deemed within safe margins. It's my belief that the number of people that have suffered side effects is comfortably within the safety margin and a perfectly acceptable risk in ending the pandemic early. If you disagree with that, that's fine - I've never argued that you shouldn't be allowed to have that point of view, but when people are going to try and take medical journals - like the one above - completely out of context to make a bullshit point about "government suppression" or to suggest that the data collected and evaluated by many, many independent top-of-their-field institutes is wrong, but some retired nurses Youtube channel is the be all and end all of the vaccine argument, then that's where I take issue. If you think that one death from vaccination is one too many, that's totally fine and you're entitled to think that. I fundamentally disagree, if the end result is that potentially hundreds, thousands, millions of lives are saved in the process.

My other point on this - and this is where it ties into conspiracy cases - is that a LOT of people on your side of this argument (not necessarily suggesting this includes you by the way, I don't know if it does or not) don't really give a fuck about the health issues argument and instead have latched onto this argument because they see it as one of the government trying to crack down on personal liberties as part of this dystopian "great reset" that they love banging on about - whilst ironically missing the point that they didn't take the vaccine and nobody made them; personal liberties intact. Even if you personally don't subscribe to that view, you cannot deny that wherever debate around vaccines occurs, conspiracy theorism is but a half step behind. I'd appreciate if you acknowledged that fact, if only to distance yourself from it.
 
Now, the service was to end on 31st December 2022, but wait, what happened? That's right, they extended it until 31st December 2023!




Do you think a service code gets extended if there's no demonstrable link between a vaccination product and an adverse effect? If they were so sure of the safety of the vaccine, surely the service would have been de-commissioned because, well, there's nobody claiming the test and so pointless retaining it?

Wrong Mockers! It's because there is a demonstrable link between the two.

So how many times was service code 63399 claimed against in the past 2 years?

Over 2,000 times. For a test to diagnose borderline outlier cases. "Rare" is it?

If even half of those tests were returned positive, it would be a thousand too many. And that doesn't take into account the diagnoses that were possible with traditional non-MRI methods.
Click to expand...

See above.

And how many vaccinations were distributed in Australia?

69.9 Million: https://www.health.gov.au/sites/def...19-vaccine-rollout-update-12-january-2024.pdf

So yes, it's very fucking rare. 0.014% of cases, in fact, so actually statistically lower than you would expect, given the data we have. But you've proved my point for me, so cheers.




Now we're approaching Feb 2024, and even I thought they'd have decommissioned the service now, given they'd have whatever data they think they needed by this point. But imagine my shock! The service code was extended again until the end of 2024.

Wow Mockers! For an mRNA vaccine that has, and I quote you:

in billions of vaccines administered there were zero - I'll say that again, zero - complications

, they aren't half flogging this MRI test are they?! Maybe, just maybe, you're completely out of your depth on this?
Click to expand...

Doesn't look like it.

And I knew I wouldn't be able to get from one end of this post to the other without you deliberately taking me out of context:

When I said "in billions of vaccines administered there were zero - I'll say that again, zero - complications" what I'm saying is that if you take away the people who had complications, the number of people that didn't is STILL in the billions. That was absolutely obviously the point I was making in the context of my other posts. Either you didn't understand what I was saying, or you deliberately took it out of context.




So who else does Mockers think he knows better than? None other than the former President of the Australian Medical Association, Dr. Kerryn Phelps!


Not just her experiencing a COVID vaccine related injury. But her wife too! Two injuries in the same household! How could this possibly happen when Mockers tells us there have been "Zero" complications to the vaccines?! Surely if the vaccine injuries/deaths were so "rare", it would be statistically improbable that there would be two in the same household?!
Click to expand...

Didn't say that. Stop taking me out of context to try and win a point.

Or perhaps, possibly, they're not as "rare" as Mockers falsely claims?
Click to expand...

They are, and you just proved it.
 
I'm not expecting Mockers to watch the above video as his world view would be smashed to smithereens, but I would strongly encourage others to do so. And I would particularly pay close attention to around 2:10 onwards. Because that important question asked by the anchor is why Mockers falsely believes the bit in bold below...
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Yep, I did, and I caught this bit "they were told not to say anything that might impede the government's rollout of the vaccines, and they took that to mean they weren't to speak about it publicly".

So, firstly, "they took that to mean" is doing a fair amount of heavy lifting here. So nobody explicitly told them not to speak out about it publicly, is what we can glean from that statement. And as for being told not to do anything that would impede the rollout - fucking good! Nor should they. The data demonstrates that in the vast, vast majority of cases the vaccines are perfectly safe and time has shown that to be true. We got out of the pandemic when we did because of our uptake in vaccinations - that wouldn't have been possible, or at the very least it would have been much more difficult with a load of uninformed people speaking out against it in direct contradiction to the evidence at a time when misinformation and scaremongering was absolutely rampant on social media - and still is.

Well Mockers, if you knew what a Life Scientist was, you might have enough of a clue to not have such a grossly misinformed opinion as you do now. Hell, if you were one, instead of a digital effects person, then you might even understand why your position is laughably delusional.
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Oh dear. Please stop taking me out of context, and don't sink to the level of ad hominems - I genuinely held you in a higher regard than that. As for "digital effects person" - yes, and I'm also employed full time as a programme leader at a university - teaching "digital effects" - so lets not pretend that I have no academic authority to talk about research, because that would be childish and extremely silly.

I know what life sciences are. I'm - again, clearly, I thought - questioning your use of the phrase "life sciences academic" as though that is somehow separate to the rest of how academia works. It isn't - the framework of publishing research is exactly the same whether you're a biochemist, astronomer, social scientist or professor in sports rehab. There is absolutely no difference and just because my academic field isn't in "life sciences" (see what I did there?) that doesn't mean that I don't know how to read and interpret information in academic journals. I might not be able to comment on the particular details of an article because I have no knowledge of the field, but I can 100% comment on the fact that someone has published an abstract with no verification, for example, or that a study isn't properly peer reviewed, because that occurs in every field of academia. I don;t need to be a biochemist to look at a paper and go "there are no citations" or "this is just an abstract, where's the data?". You don;t even need to be a fucking academic to do that, it's not like it's difficult.

The claim that there are no reviews above is in fact a lie.

Despite the lack of doctors and scientists speaking out for fear of the regulatory reprisal intimated by the news anchor and Dr. Phelps, fortunately there are more and more who are speaking out & publishing about the links:

Peer reviewed.

Peer reviewed.

Peer reviewed.

Peer reviewed. Likely underestimating the effect given study limitations & short duration.

That's just for the Myocarditis links. I've already shared the peer reviewed immune tolerance impacts of elevated IgG4 from the mRNA vaccines upthread. And the DNA contamination in the mRNA vaccines.
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First paper:

From the introduction: "The rapid development and global deployment of Coronavirus Disease 2019 (COVID-19) vaccines based on mRNA technology has been one of the outstanding successes of the response to the Severe Acute Respiratory Syndrome Coronavirus 2 (SARS-CoV-2) pandemic. Licensed for human use for the first time in the pandemic, mRNA vaccines have proven highly effective at preventing severe morbidity and mortality from SARS-CoV-2 infection not only against the original Wuhan strain but subsequent variants of concern"

From the results: "In conclusion, our study provides estimates of the excess risk of an episode of a hospital admitted episode of myocarditis after a third dose of an mRNA vaccine in England which in 16 to 39 year olds was 2.5 and 4.5 per million for the BNT162b2 and mRNA-1273 vaccines, respectively."

Again, you're posting studies that just confirm exactly what I'm saying. You're making my points for me.

Second paper:

The title is "SARS-CoV-2 Vaccination and Myocarditis in a Nordic Cohort Study of 23 Million Residents" - let's just bear that number, 23 million, in mind before we read it shall we?
From the results: "Among 23 122 522 Nordic residents (81% vaccinated by study end; 50.2% female), 1077 incident myocarditis events and 1149 incident pericarditis events were identified."

THAT'S 0.004% OF PEOPLE.

I'll leave the last word to the conclusion of the paper: "Myocarditis after mRNA vaccination was rare in this study cohort and even among young males. The risk of myocarditis following the mRNA vaccines has been evaluated by the US Food and Drug Administration, which concluded that the benefits of vaccination outweigh the risks and fully authorized the use of mRNA-1273 in persons 18 years or older and BNT162b2 in persons 16 years or older. In addition, BNT162b2 is authorized for emergency use in children 5 years or older.20,21 The European Medicines Agency concluded that the benefits of vaccination outweigh the risks and approved mRNA-1273 for use in persons 12 years or older and BNT162b2 for those 5 years or older.22,23 In addition, a comment published by the American College of Cardiology24 evaluated vaccine-associated myocarditis risk and concluded that the benefits of vaccination outweigh the risks. As of January 2022, there have been nearly 5.8 million deaths associated with COVID-19 worldwide since the start of the pandemic.25 All currently available SARS-CoV-2 mRNA vaccines are highly effective against severe COVID-19 and provide some protection against transmission and infection."

Not going to bother reading the last two papers, because I've made my point. Or rather, you have.
 
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This, above, is the most criminally negligent rhetoric. "Billions of doses administered and zero complications". Even if that were true (narrator: it isn't), you don't fucking stick that shit into the wider population without long term clinical safety data. When you do a Life Sciences degree Mockers, you learn in Pharma 101, that 'long term' means 5-7 years through the four phases. At least.
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Out of context, again.

If you do stick that shit into billions of people without long term clinical safety data, you end up with the excess deaths observed now in the likes of the EUROMOMO paediatric data, even years after the peak of the pandemic.

And back to the original point, you end up with more punters collapsing in the stands. Again, just to labour the point. That doesn't mean that *every* punter in the stands that collapses is because of the vaccine. But it is criminally negligent to bury one's head in the sand at this point and not investigate thoroughly and properly what the effect is.
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The studies YOU LINKED UP are agreeing with me. Their findings are mirroring EXACTLY what I've been saying this entire time. I'm trying to think of a better, more simplistic way of saying it, but I can't. I cannot make this any easier to understand - the data you keep providing is reinforcing my argument, and is completely in line with the guidance and warnings about the potential risks of vaccines that we all knew about from literally the word go. I cannot work any harder to get you to understand this, so if you still think I'm wrong after this I literally have nothing left to say about it.

We get it Mockers. You were one of the most vociferous during the Pandemic about "The Science" and "The Cranks". We get you lined up diligently, put yourself at risk, perhaps encouraged others to do the same. It's unpalatable to consider that you might have put yourself and loved ones at risk, so it's easier to bury one's head in the sand and pretend there's nothing to see here. We understand that you have to double, triple and quadruple down as the data and evidence gradually crumbles the narrative around you. Some of us took the jabs, and then changed our view with the data. Others will have to die on the hill.

But do yourself a favour. Stop pretending you're as informed on this topic as you really are. The Australian Department Of Health and the former President Of the Australian Medical Association, among a growing list of others, disagree with you.

You would do well to listen...
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For the last time, and then I really am not posting on this pointless thread any more - YOUR DATA BACKS MY ARGUMENT UP AND ALWAYS HAS.

You're claiming that I "put loved ones at risk" by encouraging them to have the vaccine is like saying I put them at risk by encouraging them to go outside, when there's a risk that a tree could fall on them and kill them. It's a completely garbage argument, not backed up by the data that you provided.

Billions - yes, billions - of people have had covid vaccinations and had no side effects whatsoever. A tiny, very, very rare number of people have - but that number is so low that it falls comfortably within the acceptable margin for risk.

Both clinical studies you have linked talked about the safety and effectiveness of the vaccine - go and read it for yourself, you don;t need to waste time arguing with me. Just simply go and read the articles for yourself, instead of reading the title and interpreting what their findings were based on that and that alone. You clearly haven't actually read the studies you;re linking, or you would have read the bits about vaccine safety and immediately dismissed them as not being suitable to make your point with.

You are really, really far down a rabbit hole mate, and your ability to make rational arguments has got a lot worse since the last time I engaged you on this subject. I don't remember you being as lax as to not actually read the articles you were linking up.

If you want to make the argument that 1 vaccine related death is 1 too many - fine. I can completely understand and justify why someone would think that, and I'd never argue that you weren't entitled to your view in that regard. I personally disagree, but that's because I take a much more pragmatic view on solving these issues.

But don't just fucking make stuff up, or deliberately take me out of context, or try and misrepresent medical studies thinking I won't be arsed to read them.

Now this really is my last post on this subject. I thought that in the intervening years since I last posted about this something more conclusive might have come up, but it's the exact same shit it was 3-4 years ago, and just as ill informed as it ever was.
 
Old Iron Balls said:
Top draw evidence based post as per usual Krom, thanks for taking the time to put all of that together.

I was surprised to see MBR not engage with your previous posts on this subject given he’s “all over” the covid and vaccine threads, apparently.

Like you touched on you’ll have people wanting to justify their decisions and willing to die on Mount Covid, so it won’t make much difference to him I think.

Also, and more importantly - It’s a shit show by whoever decided to move this thread that your post is basically in the forum bin and people will continue to be misinformed by not seeing it.
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It seems as soon as anything that remotely contradicts the party line it gets booted over here which leads many to assume it’s because it’s bollox, why is that?
 
Today should be fun, Sturgeon's turn to give evidence. Like Rishi and Boris she has deleted all her Whatsapp messages and apparently her key decison making group didn't take any minutes (probably to avoid having them seen by an inquiry like this).
 
If they are that safe and effective, how many would voluntarily have another? They only got the numbers they did last time because of bullying and propaganda.
 
fergieschewy said:
If they are that safe and effective, how many would voluntarily have another? They only got the numbers they did last time because of bullying and propaganda.
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I’ll say again, many countries removed the AZ vaccine due to safety fears.

That’s all that needs to be said.
 
Old Iron Balls said:
I’ll say again, many countries removed the AZ vaccine due to safety fears.

That’s all that needs to be said.
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Aren’t we committed to millions of MRNA vaccines moving forward? Can’t see a conflict of interest there .
 
fergieschewy said:
Aren’t we committed to millions of MRNA vaccines moving forward? Can’t see a conflict of interest there .
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I’m tired of the subject now tbh, I made enough posts on here (under old account) and elsewhere about it. I do know many people regret their choice and wouldn’t have another though, maybe they’ll change their mind when the fearometer gets ramped up again.

For me not enough scrutiny was placed on Fauci, the NIH’s funding of Wuhan and the person who donated to the NIH.
 
Old Iron Balls said:
Top draw evidence based post as per usual Krom, thanks for taking the time to put all of that together.

I was surprised to see MBR not engage with your previous posts on this subject given he’s “all over” the covid and vaccine threads, apparently.

Like you touched on you’ll have people wanting to justify their decisions and willing to die on Mount Covid, so it won’t make much difference to him I think.

Also, and more importantly - It’s a shit show by whoever decided to move this thread that your post is basically in the forum bin and people will continue to be misinformed by not seeing it.
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Mockers either doesn't understand what he is critiquing, or is misinterpreting what I have shared.

Which is understandable as he doesn't have a background in molecular, cellular biology, biochemistry nor genomics.

Nor has he spent 15 years of his career working with the healthcare industry and public health entities with their data and protocols.

When I've time away from changing shitty nappies & dealing with screaming newborns I will debunk his retorts.

And since he has already posted his last post on the topic, I hope he will then reflect on my response, and educate himself on why the corporatised pharmaceutical industry is so dangerous.
 
Krom said:
Mockers either doesn't understand what he is critiquing, or is misinterpreting what I have shared.

Which is understandable as he doesn't have a background in molecular, cellular biology, biochemistry nor genomics.

Nor has he spent 15 years of his career working with the healthcare industry and public health entities with their data and protocols.

When I've time away from changing shitty nappies & dealing with screaming newborns I will debunk his retorts.

And since he has already posted his last post on the topic, I hope he will then reflect on my response, and educate himself on why the corporatised pharmaceutical industry is so dangerous.
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Nice one, look forward to reading it.
 
Old Iron Balls said:
Nice one, look forward to reading it.
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I honestly don’t know how some people can be so trusting and naive especially after all of the things that have come to light. I get that a lot of people want to be led and believe what they’re fed, it’s much easier that way, but for someone to weigh up the available and have the capacity for reason and yet be so dismissive is a bit strange.
 

More shite from the retired nurse.
 
fergieschewy said:

More shite from the retired nurse.
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37:40 is interesting..."the medical system to a certain extent is captured", "for every Dr that can get at least 75% of his patients to take the medical intervention they get $250 per injection...".

Not a shock to some of us though.
 
Old Iron Balls said:
37:40 is interesting..."the medical system to a certain extent is captured", "for every Dr that can get at least 75% of his patients to take the medical intervention they get $250 per injection...".

Not a shock to some of us though.
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It’s not no. I was badgered by my ‘ Dr’ to have my jabs, I asked for an antigen test as I reckoned I didn’t need one, no chance of that sorry but she still wanted me to “ have it anyway”. So glad I stood firm, the bribery and coercion stood out a mile for me.
 
fergieschewy said:
It’s not no. I was badgered by my ‘ Dr’ to have my jabs, I asked for an antigen test as I reckoned I didn’t need one, no chance of that sorry but she still wanted me to “ have it anyway”. So glad I stood firm, the bribery and coercion stood out a mile for me.
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Oh yeah I've had shitloads of texts from them offering me one, all been ignored.
 
Don’t know how they managed to sneak in but fair play. Safe and effective though.
 
Our Adam is the other audience member speaking out on that Sunak grilling, had to lie to get in the audience and somehow passed the background checks. With the amount of reports ( under reported too) of adverse reactions you’d think that they’d pause giving them out until they had investigated.
 
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