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The Covid enquiry.

wayne_looney

Senior Member
Messages
55,664
Covid Inquiry to hear evidence on how prepared UK was.

The UK's Covid Inquiry begins public hearings at 10:00 BST on Tuesday
The session will begin with a statement from the chair, former Court of Appeal judge Lady Hallett
There will then follow a film featuring bereaved families
This part of the inquiry is focusing on the UK's "resilience and preparedness"
No-one will be found "guilty" or "innocent" in the inquiry - the idea is to learn lessons
You can watch the inquiry's public hearings by pressing play above



https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-65876922

It's going to take 3 years.
 
Covid Inquiry to hear evidence on how prepared UK was.

The UK's Covid Inquiry begins public hearings at 10:00 BST on Tuesday
The session will begin with a statement from the chair, former Court of Appeal judge Lady Hallett
There will then follow a film featuring bereaved families
This part of the inquiry is focusing on the UK's "resilience and preparedness"
No-one will be found "guilty" or "innocent" in the inquiry - the idea is to learn lessons
You can watch the inquiry's public hearings by pressing play above



https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-65876922

It's going to take 3 years.

I wonder if one of the lessons will be, don't disband your pandemic preparedness committee in order to save money so you can concentrate on a self destructive policy that will set your country back decades.
 
I wonder if one of the lessons will be, don't disband your pandemic preparedness committee in order to save money so you can concentrate on a self destructive policy that will set your country back decades.

Too simple. We should definitely spend years trying to work out if we did anything wrong at all to have one of the worst death counts in the world.
 
I’d have thought we could have at least increased NHS capacity over the last 3 years, bet we haven’t.
 
Shouldnt the conclusion be, we got it all wrong. No need for lockdown, masks are completely worthless and shutting down education and the NHs was a complete disaster that will cause more deaths than Covid.

No need for such a expensive investigation.
 
Shouldnt the conclusion be, we got it all wrong. No need for lockdown, masks are completely worthless and shutting down education and the NHs was a complete disaster that will cause more deaths than Covid.

No need for such a expensive investigation.

No
 
Shouldnt the conclusion be, we got it all wrong. No need for lockdown, masks are completely worthless and shutting down education and the NHs was a complete disaster that will cause more deaths than Covid.

No need for such a expensive investigation.

We all know the ins and outs of the matter, but it has to come out officially.

Glad to see the findings will be published after each module instead of having to wait until the end of the enquiry.
 
Shouldnt the conclusion be, we got it all wrong. No need for lockdown, masks are completely worthless and shutting down education and the NHs was a complete disaster that will cause more deaths than Covid.

No need for such a expensive investigation.

Yes if you wanted a massive pile of dead bodies, especially older and people with medical conditions.
 
I can tell you a few findings straight off.

1. Herd immunity which was the initial response killed people and was wrong, we did not heed warnings coming from northern Italy.

2. We should have locked down a couple of weeks earlier (linked to 1) that would have meant less infections, less deaths and less serious ill , in turn it would have meant shorter lockdown.

3. Matt Hancock should go on trial for lying about ring of steel and testing prior to sending old people infected in hospital to care homes, many died in care homes due to this.
 
Any poitician that profited from it should be hung.
 
I wonder if one of the lessons will be, don't disband your pandemic preparedness committee in order to save money so you can concentrate on a self destructive policy that will set your country back decades.

Yep, conclusion will be short. "We were excellently prepared with a fully tested and resourced plan. Then we through the plan out as it didn't allow for gross profiteering by Conservative party donors."
 
I understand that the reason for this sort of inquiry is to allow a degree of catharsis and closure for the broader public, and to give a voice for those most impacted. So I wouldn't dismiss it, but would like in parallel a more expert group who can more quickly decide on specific actions that need actioning now. If that had been done with Cygnus it may have helped us all. The British State works in strange ways, other countries have completed there's and we're just starting.

One thing no inquiry can really get to the bottom of are the forces that led to the banking crash and the long period of public austerity that followed.
 
Shouldnt the conclusion be, we got it all wrong. No need for lockdown, masks are completely worthless and shutting down education and the NHs was a complete disaster that will cause more deaths than Covid.

No need for such a expensive investigation.

people are never gonna back down from their braindead position on this. The only thing to argue apparently is that "it should have been 2 weeks earlier we fucked everything up". They have all convinced themselves asymptomatic transmission was real and a mass silent killer and that's that, and that the 20 year old piece of broken modelling code that wasn't peer reviewed by anyone was an accurate representation of what would happen. At least they got their 5 shots in a year though.

The politicians involved all made a shit load though, plunged small businesses into shit with bounceback loans, fucked up education for a generation of kids, and created a waiting list so big on the NHS now that you are expected to live without quality of life surgery and just get hooked on opioid pain killers - all this enquiry is about is making up more excuses for doing it all over again when they decide we need another "pandemic" in a couple of years time
 
people are never gonna back down from their braindead position on this. The only thing to argue apparently is that "it should have been 2 weeks earlier we fucked everything up". They have all convinced themselves asymptomatic transmission was real and a mass silent killer and that's that, and that the 20 year old piece of broken modelling code that wasn't peer reviewed by anyone was an accurate representation of what would happen. At least they got their 5 shots in a year though.

The politicians involved all made a shit load though, plunged small businesses into shit with bounceback loans, fucked up education for a generation of kids, and created a waiting list so big on the NHS now that you are expected to live without quality of life surgery and just get hooked on opioid pain killers - all this enquiry is about is making up more excuses for doing it all over again when they decide we need another "pandemic" in a couple of years time

A growing NHS waiting list is tory party policy and has been for years. It means they can claim that the state funded healthcare model isn't working and we should tear it up and replace it with some sort of insurance funded nightmare.

We absolutely should have implemented lockdown two weeks earlier, when it was clear what was happening in Italy, this is basically unarguable. It would have tempered the initial surge and bought us time to look at a more nuanced approach. I don't really know much about the bounceback loans, but I am sure that whatever terms they were on they would be more beneficial to the tories banking mates than to small businesses that actually need help.

Yes, the code should definitely have been reviewed and updated, but, this sort of thing doesn't happen very often, and the parameters that the model would have to take into account change all the time. It would be very difficult to produce any kind of validated code that took every aspect into account that it needed to. Models will ALWAYS differ from reality, at best they might tell you the general direction something will head in and give you a ball park figure, to within a couple of magnitudes accuracy.

What we really should learn from this is that we need to educate people better. We need to teach people to think critically and we need to teach them how to understand and asses statistical and scientific data. Oh, and if at all possible, stop fucking lying to them all the time, then they might believe you when you need them to take you seriously.
 
"the position I agree with is basically unarguable" sure thing pal.
 
"the position I agree with is basically unarguable" sure thing pal.

I also happen to agree with the position that the world is an oblate spheroid. Would you agree that that is also unarguable?

And should it be inarguable?
 
Someone made a right few quid out of this, let’s hope that comes up.
 
Going to take 3 years. Let's hope it's still relevant then.

The fact that the enquiry is battling the government for information suggests this is no white wash.
 
I also happen to agree with the position that the world is an oblate spheroid. Would you agree that that is also unarguable?

And should it be inarguable?

"lol, r u a flat earther or somethin" leading the way on critical thinking
 
people are never gonna back down from their braindead position on this. The only thing to argue apparently is that "it should have been 2 weeks earlier we fucked everything up". They have all convinced themselves asymptomatic transmission was real and a mass silent killer and that's that, and that the 20 year old piece of broken modelling code that wasn't peer reviewed by anyone was an accurate representation of what would happen. At least they got their 5 shots in a year though.

The politicians involved all made a shit load though, plunged small businesses into shit with bounceback loans, fucked up education for a generation of kids, and created a waiting list so big on the NHS now that you are expected to live without quality of life surgery and just get hooked on opioid pain killers - all this enquiry is about is making up more excuses for doing it all over again when they decide we need another "pandemic" in a couple of years time

I was pro lock down initially and complied throughout. Studies I have seen since have changed my opinion. I will try and find the exact research but a recent study suggested that just 1700 deaths from covid were halted as a result of the lockdown.

Compare this to those who lost their lives because of depression, lack of cancer checkups etc etc and it seems like lockdown was a complete waste of time and actually caused more deaths than it saved.

All we will see is politicians on both sides back tracking and claiming that none of them really wanted to close down education or the NHS or indeed have lockdown at all.

Edit found article here


Researchers say draconian measures taken in spring 2020 had 'negligible impact' on Covid mortality compared with lighter-touch countries



The first lockdown, announced by Boris Johnson in March 2020, came on the back of research suggesting 500,000 could die from the virus
Lockdown saved as few as 1,700 lives in England and Wales in spring 2020, according to a landmark study which concludes the benefits of the policy were “a drop in the bucket compared to the staggering collateral costs” imposed.

Scientists from Johns Hopkins University and Lund University examined almost 20,000 studies on measures taken to protect populations against Covid across the world.

Their findings suggest that lockdowns in response to the first wave of the pandemic, when compared with less strict policies adopted by the likes of Sweden, prevented as few as 1,700 deaths in England and Wales. In an average week there are around 11,000 deaths in England and Wales.

The report authors said their findings showed that the draconian measures had a “negligible impact” on Covid mortality and were a “policy failure of gigantic proportions”.

Johns Hopkins is one of the most respected medical schools in the world and became known during the pandemic for its Covid dashboard measuring cases and deaths all over the world.

The study’s authors conclude: “The science of lockdowns is clear; the data are in: the deaths saved were a drop in the bucket compared to the staggering collateral costs imposed.”

The detrimental impact of lockdown on children’s health and education, on economic growth and its contribution to large increases in public debt has become increasingly clear since the policy was introduced.



However, The Telegraph recently revealed that a secretive government unit worked with social media companies during the pandemic in an attempt to curtail criticism of controversial lockdown policies.

The Covid Disinformation Unit monitored social media and asked tech companies to remove posts it considered to be “potentially harmful content”.


Britain’s first lockdown, in March 2020, was introduced on the basis of modelling exercises from Prof Neil Ferguson which had predicted there could be more than 500,000 deaths in the UK, without action to stop the spread of the virus.

His research had suggested that even with mitigations such as social distancing, and household quarantines for Covid cases, there could be at least 250,000 deaths, unless further measures were taken.


The new study on the impact of lockdowns is published in a report by the Institute of Economic Affairs out on Monday.

Across Europe, countries which embarked on lockdowns saw 6,000 fewer deaths than if they had embarked on a less draconian approach, while the US could have seen 4,000 fewer deaths, they conclude.

By contrast, modelling by Prof Ferguson and his colleagues from Imperial College London in March 2020 had predicted that, without action, the UK could see 510,000 deaths from Covid, with 2.2 million in the United States.

After lockdown was imposed, the scientist suggested that “intense social distancing and other interventions now in place” could reduce that figure to 20,000 in the UK.

The Covid Inquiry is set to examine the Government’s decision making during the pandemic but it has already been the subject of significant criticism relating to its speed, scope and transparency.

Researchers for the Johns Hopkins study said the findings showed that lockdowns had been “a global policy failure of gigantic proportions”.

Lockdowns ‘a failed promise’
Co-author Dr Lars Jonung, professor emeritus at the Knut Wicksell Centre for Financial Studies at Sweden’s Lund University, said the study was the first to fully evaluate the impact of mandatory restrictions.

He said: “It demonstrates that lockdowns were a failed promise. They had negligible health effects but disastrous economic, social and political costs to society. Most likely lockdowns represent the biggest policy mistake in modern times.”

Prof Steve H. Hanke, co-author and professor of applied economics and co-director of the Institute for Applied Economics, Global Health, and the Study of Business Enterprise at Johns Hopkins University: said: “When it comes to Covid, epidemiological models have many things in common: dubious assumptions, hair-raising predictions of disaster that miss the mark, and few lessons learned.”

The researchers examined 19,646 potentially relevant studies, selecting 22 with standardised measures for meta analysis.

They used two approaches to examine the impact of lockdown.


The first, described as “stringency index studies”, examined the difference between harsher lockdowns and more voluntary measures.

This found the difference in mortality amounted to just 3.2 per cent – or 1,700 deaths in England and Wales – compared with countries such as Sweden which relied more on voluntary social changes.

Even when a broader definition of lockdown was used – combining the impact of specific interventions, to allow for the fact countries embarked on different measures – the estimates suggest that it only reduced Covid deaths by 10.7 per cent.

This amounts to 6,000 deaths in England and Wales, 23,000 deaths in Europe and 16,000 deaths in the United States during the first wave. Over this period there were 74,000 Covid deaths in England and Wales.

Some measures linked to increase in deaths
While business closures were associated with a 7.5 per cent fall in Covid mortality, gathering limits – such as “the rule of six” – were linked to an increase in Covid death rates of 5.9 per cent.

Other interventions, such as the use of face coverings, which were not pushed in Britain until the end of the first wave, were found to be “relatively effective” where they were used, cutting deaths by 18.7 per cent.

Researchers said more research was needed – including to examine the impact of masks on welfare – to answer the question of whether mask mandates were a desirable policy.

The report’s authors said their estimate of 1,700 deaths prevented by the first lockdown was far less than those of a typical flu season, which has between 18,500 and 24,800 deaths.

Jonas Herby, co-author of the study and special adviser at the Centre for Political Studies (CEPOS), an independent classical liberal think tank based in Copenhagen, Denmark, said: “Numerous misleading studies, driven by subjective models and overlooking significant factors like voluntary behaviour changes, heavily influenced the initial perception of lockdowns as highly effective measures.

“Our meta-analysis suggests that when researchers account for additional variables, such as voluntary behaviour, the impact of lockdowns becomes negligible.”

Swedish model suggests voluntary change
Researchers said studies showed that voluntary behavioural change was more important than mandatory restrictions in combating Covid.

While Sweden had few compulsory restrictions, changes in consumer activity showed that older people stayed away from shops and restaurants at times as infections spread.

Prof Ferguson did not respond to the points made in the study.


In response to an earlier version of the paper, which did not include UK data, he said: “Disentangling the precise impact of individual NPIs [non pharmaceutical interventions] remains extremely challenging, not least because the most socially and economically disruptive measures (closing all non-essential businesses, stay at home orders) were generally used in combination and as last resorts on top of longer-term measures such as mask wearing.

“Analysis has been further complicated by the accumulation of immunity (from infection and vaccination) in populations together with the emergence of new Covid-19 variants. Distinguishing the relative effectiveness of mandates versus government recommendations – while clearly of political interest – is even more challenging, given the large between- (and even within-) country differences in population responses to both types of measures.”

A government spokesman said: “We are committed to learning from the Covid Inquiry’s findings, which will play a key role in informing the Government’s planning and preparations for the future.”
 
Last edited:
Any poitician that profited from it should be hung.
That is one element that will NOT be part of the inquiry.

The actual enquiry findings should of course be: this is proof ( as if proof were needed ) that the tory party only exists as a mechanism to turn every public service - including every public emergency - into an opportunity to extract profit by creating golden-goose contracts for friends, family and donors paid for out of public funds. That is why is behind the privatisation ideology. Nothing at all to do with being more efficient ( it isn't ) or saving money ( it doesn't )
 
Turns out that the enquiry is demanding face masks and regular lateral flow tests if you are attending the enquiry on a regular basis.

God help us.
 
I think doing those portraits or whatever you can them, of victims and families is a waste of time in this instance.

It seems like there needs to be 2 or 3 intertwined enquires

One about the preparedness & response

One about how the government handled it, which links into the above, and Boris missing cobra meetings etc

Then another looking at the corruption, profiteering etc
 
I was pro lock down initially and complied throughout. Studies I have seen since have changed my opinion. I will try and find the exact research but a recent study suggested that just 1700 deaths from covid were halted as a result of the lockdown.

Compare this to those who lost their lives because of depression, lack of cancer checkups etc etc and it seems like lockdown was a complete waste of time and actually caused more deaths than it saved.

All we will see is politicians on both sides back tracking and claiming that none of them really wanted to close down education or the NHS or indeed have lockdown at all.

Edit found article here


Researchers say draconian measures taken in spring 2020 had 'negligible impact' on Covid mortality compared with lighter-touch countries



The first lockdown, announced by Boris Johnson in March 2020, came on the back of research suggesting 500,000 could die from the virus
Lockdown saved as few as 1,700 lives in England and Wales in spring 2020, according to a landmark study which concludes the benefits of the policy were “a drop in the bucket compared to the staggering collateral costs” imposed.

Scientists from Johns Hopkins University and Lund University examined almost 20,000 studies on measures taken to protect populations against Covid across the world.

Their findings suggest that lockdowns in response to the first wave of the pandemic, when compared with less strict policies adopted by the likes of Sweden, prevented as few as 1,700 deaths in England and Wales. In an average week there are around 11,000 deaths in England and Wales.

The report authors said their findings showed that the draconian measures had a “negligible impact” on Covid mortality and were a “policy failure of gigantic proportions”.

Johns Hopkins is one of the most respected medical schools in the world and became known during the pandemic for its Covid dashboard measuring cases and deaths all over the world.

The study’s authors conclude: “The science of lockdowns is clear; the data are in: the deaths saved were a drop in the bucket compared to the staggering collateral costs imposed.”

The detrimental impact of lockdown on children’s health and education, on economic growth and its contribution to large increases in public debt has become increasingly clear since the policy was introduced.



However, The Telegraph recently revealed that a secretive government unit worked with social media companies during the pandemic in an attempt to curtail criticism of controversial lockdown policies.

The Covid Disinformation Unit monitored social media and asked tech companies to remove posts it considered to be “potentially harmful content”.


Britain’s first lockdown, in March 2020, was introduced on the basis of modelling exercises from Prof Neil Ferguson which had predicted there could be more than 500,000 deaths in the UK, without action to stop the spread of the virus.

His research had suggested that even with mitigations such as social distancing, and household quarantines for Covid cases, there could be at least 250,000 deaths, unless further measures were taken.


The new study on the impact of lockdowns is published in a report by the Institute of Economic Affairs out on Monday.

Across Europe, countries which embarked on lockdowns saw 6,000 fewer deaths than if they had embarked on a less draconian approach, while the US could have seen 4,000 fewer deaths, they conclude.

By contrast, modelling by Prof Ferguson and his colleagues from Imperial College London in March 2020 had predicted that, without action, the UK could see 510,000 deaths from Covid, with 2.2 million in the United States.

After lockdown was imposed, the scientist suggested that “intense social distancing and other interventions now in place” could reduce that figure to 20,000 in the UK.

The Covid Inquiry is set to examine the Government’s decision making during the pandemic but it has already been the subject of significant criticism relating to its speed, scope and transparency.

Researchers for the Johns Hopkins study said the findings showed that lockdowns had been “a global policy failure of gigantic proportions”.

Lockdowns ‘a failed promise’
Co-author Dr Lars Jonung, professor emeritus at the Knut Wicksell Centre for Financial Studies at Sweden’s Lund University, said the study was the first to fully evaluate the impact of mandatory restrictions.

He said: “It demonstrates that lockdowns were a failed promise. They had negligible health effects but disastrous economic, social and political costs to society. Most likely lockdowns represent the biggest policy mistake in modern times.”

Prof Steve H. Hanke, co-author and professor of applied economics and co-director of the Institute for Applied Economics, Global Health, and the Study of Business Enterprise at Johns Hopkins University: said: “When it comes to Covid, epidemiological models have many things in common: dubious assumptions, hair-raising predictions of disaster that miss the mark, and few lessons learned.”

The researchers examined 19,646 potentially relevant studies, selecting 22 with standardised measures for meta analysis.

They used two approaches to examine the impact of lockdown.


The first, described as “stringency index studies”, examined the difference between harsher lockdowns and more voluntary measures.

This found the difference in mortality amounted to just 3.2 per cent – or 1,700 deaths in England and Wales – compared with countries such as Sweden which relied more on voluntary social changes.

Even when a broader definition of lockdown was used – combining the impact of specific interventions, to allow for the fact countries embarked on different measures – the estimates suggest that it only reduced Covid deaths by 10.7 per cent.

This amounts to 6,000 deaths in England and Wales, 23,000 deaths in Europe and 16,000 deaths in the United States during the first wave. Over this period there were 74,000 Covid deaths in England and Wales.

Some measures linked to increase in deaths
While business closures were associated with a 7.5 per cent fall in Covid mortality, gathering limits – such as “the rule of six” – were linked to an increase in Covid death rates of 5.9 per cent.

Other interventions, such as the use of face coverings, which were not pushed in Britain until the end of the first wave, were found to be “relatively effective” where they were used, cutting deaths by 18.7 per cent.

Researchers said more research was needed – including to examine the impact of masks on welfare – to answer the question of whether mask mandates were a desirable policy.

The report’s authors said their estimate of 1,700 deaths prevented by the first lockdown was far less than those of a typical flu season, which has between 18,500 and 24,800 deaths.

Jonas Herby, co-author of the study and special adviser at the Centre for Political Studies (CEPOS), an independent classical liberal think tank based in Copenhagen, Denmark, said: “Numerous misleading studies, driven by subjective models and overlooking significant factors like voluntary behaviour changes, heavily influenced the initial perception of lockdowns as highly effective measures.

“Our meta-analysis suggests that when researchers account for additional variables, such as voluntary behaviour, the impact of lockdowns becomes negligible.”

Swedish model suggests voluntary change
Researchers said studies showed that voluntary behavioural change was more important than mandatory restrictions in combating Covid.

While Sweden had few compulsory restrictions, changes in consumer activity showed that older people stayed away from shops and restaurants at times as infections spread.

Prof Ferguson did not respond to the points made in the study.


In response to an earlier version of the paper, which did not include UK data, he said: “Disentangling the precise impact of individual NPIs [non pharmaceutical interventions] remains extremely challenging, not least because the most socially and economically disruptive measures (closing all non-essential businesses, stay at home orders) were generally used in combination and as last resorts on top of longer-term measures such as mask wearing.

“Analysis has been further complicated by the accumulation of immunity (from infection and vaccination) in populations together with the emergence of new Covid-19 variants. Distinguishing the relative effectiveness of mandates versus government recommendations – while clearly of political interest – is even more challenging, given the large between- (and even within-) country differences in population responses to both types of measures.”

A government spokesman said: “We are committed to learning from the Covid Inquiry’s findings, which will play a key role in informing the Government’s planning and preparations for the future.”

There's quite a lot of mentions of voluntary behavioural change in there, do you remember what happened that first weekend when boris politely asked people not to go out to pubs and clubs? The UK public are generally thick as fucking shit and act like a bunch of entitled wankers, which is probably why they keep electing tory governments, and in all likelihood would not have undertaken the voluntary changes in behaviour required.

I would also like to know whether or not the study took into account what would have happened had our hospitals have become overrun with patients on ventilators, like actually happened in Italy. Many people only survived a covid infection because they received intensive medical care. What would have happened if that care had not been available, because of a lack of equipment, or a lack of trained medical staff because they were all at home with "flu".

Just looking at deaths is really small picture thinking.
 
Turns out that the enquiry is demanding face masks and regular lateral flow tests if you are attending the enquiry on a regular basis.

God help us.
What is your source for this claim ?
 
Turns out that the enquiry is demanding face masks and regular lateral flow tests if you are attending the enquiry on a regular basis.

God help us.

No. They are making face masks available for those that want them and asking people to keep an eye out for COVID symptoms and test accordingly. They're not 'demanding' anything. Plus people attending are likely to be people who've lost family to COVID or are themselves suffering from the long-term effects of COVID.

A total non-story.
 
Last edited:
Turns out that the enquiry is demanding face masks and regular lateral flow tests if you are attending the enquiry on a regular basis.

God help us.

Disappointing coming from you.
 
I was pro lock down initially and complied throughout. Studies I have seen since have changed my opinion. I will try and find the exact research but a recent study suggested that just 1700 deaths from covid were halted as a result of the lockdown.

Compare this to those who lost their lives because of depression, lack of cancer checkups etc etc and it seems like lockdown was a complete waste of time and actually caused more deaths than it saved.

All we will see is politicians on both sides back tracking and claiming that none of them really wanted to close down education or the NHS or indeed have lockdown at all.

Edit found article here


Researchers say draconian measures taken in spring 2020 had 'negligible impact' on Covid mortality compared with lighter-touch countries



The first lockdown, announced by Boris Johnson in March 2020, came on the back of research suggesting 500,000 could die from the virus
Lockdown saved as few as 1,700 lives in England and Wales in spring 2020, according to a landmark study which concludes the benefits of the policy were “a drop in the bucket compared to the staggering collateral costs” imposed.

Scientists from Johns Hopkins University and Lund University examined almost 20,000 studies on measures taken to protect populations against Covid across the world.

Their findings suggest that lockdowns in response to the first wave of the pandemic, when compared with less strict policies adopted by the likes of Sweden, prevented as few as 1,700 deaths in England and Wales. In an average week there are around 11,000 deaths in England and Wales.

The report authors said their findings showed that the draconian measures had a “negligible impact” on Covid mortality and were a “policy failure of gigantic proportions”.

Johns Hopkins is one of the most respected medical schools in the world and became known during the pandemic for its Covid dashboard measuring cases and deaths all over the world.

The study’s authors conclude: “The science of lockdowns is clear; the data are in: the deaths saved were a drop in the bucket compared to the staggering collateral costs imposed.”

The detrimental impact of lockdown on children’s health and education, on economic growth and its contribution to large increases in public debt has become increasingly clear since the policy was introduced.



However, The Telegraph recently revealed that a secretive government unit worked with social media companies during the pandemic in an attempt to curtail criticism of controversial lockdown policies.

The Covid Disinformation Unit monitored social media and asked tech companies to remove posts it considered to be “potentially harmful content”.


Britain’s first lockdown, in March 2020, was introduced on the basis of modelling exercises from Prof Neil Ferguson which had predicted there could be more than 500,000 deaths in the UK, without action to stop the spread of the virus.

His research had suggested that even with mitigations such as social distancing, and household quarantines for Covid cases, there could be at least 250,000 deaths, unless further measures were taken.


The new study on the impact of lockdowns is published in a report by the Institute of Economic Affairs out on Monday.

Across Europe, countries which embarked on lockdowns saw 6,000 fewer deaths than if they had embarked on a less draconian approach, while the US could have seen 4,000 fewer deaths, they conclude.

By contrast, modelling by Prof Ferguson and his colleagues from Imperial College London in March 2020 had predicted that, without action, the UK could see 510,000 deaths from Covid, with 2.2 million in the United States.

After lockdown was imposed, the scientist suggested that “intense social distancing and other interventions now in place” could reduce that figure to 20,000 in the UK.

The Covid Inquiry is set to examine the Government’s decision making during the pandemic but it has already been the subject of significant criticism relating to its speed, scope and transparency.

Researchers for the Johns Hopkins study said the findings showed that lockdowns had been “a global policy failure of gigantic proportions”.

Lockdowns ‘a failed promise’
Co-author Dr Lars Jonung, professor emeritus at the Knut Wicksell Centre for Financial Studies at Sweden’s Lund University, said the study was the first to fully evaluate the impact of mandatory restrictions.

He said: “It demonstrates that lockdowns were a failed promise. They had negligible health effects but disastrous economic, social and political costs to society. Most likely lockdowns represent the biggest policy mistake in modern times.”

Prof Steve H. Hanke, co-author and professor of applied economics and co-director of the Institute for Applied Economics, Global Health, and the Study of Business Enterprise at Johns Hopkins University: said: “When it comes to Covid, epidemiological models have many things in common: dubious assumptions, hair-raising predictions of disaster that miss the mark, and few lessons learned.”

The researchers examined 19,646 potentially relevant studies, selecting 22 with standardised measures for meta analysis.

They used two approaches to examine the impact of lockdown.


The first, described as “stringency index studies”, examined the difference between harsher lockdowns and more voluntary measures.

This found the difference in mortality amounted to just 3.2 per cent – or 1,700 deaths in England and Wales – compared with countries such as Sweden which relied more on voluntary social changes.

Even when a broader definition of lockdown was used – combining the impact of specific interventions, to allow for the fact countries embarked on different measures – the estimates suggest that it only reduced Covid deaths by 10.7 per cent.

This amounts to 6,000 deaths in England and Wales, 23,000 deaths in Europe and 16,000 deaths in the United States during the first wave. Over this period there were 74,000 Covid deaths in England and Wales.

Some measures linked to increase in deaths
While business closures were associated with a 7.5 per cent fall in Covid mortality, gathering limits – such as “the rule of six” – were linked to an increase in Covid death rates of 5.9 per cent.

Other interventions, such as the use of face coverings, which were not pushed in Britain until the end of the first wave, were found to be “relatively effective” where they were used, cutting deaths by 18.7 per cent.

Researchers said more research was needed – including to examine the impact of masks on welfare – to answer the question of whether mask mandates were a desirable policy.

The report’s authors said their estimate of 1,700 deaths prevented by the first lockdown was far less than those of a typical flu season, which has between 18,500 and 24,800 deaths.

Jonas Herby, co-author of the study and special adviser at the Centre for Political Studies (CEPOS), an independent classical liberal think tank based in Copenhagen, Denmark, said: “Numerous misleading studies, driven by subjective models and overlooking significant factors like voluntary behaviour changes, heavily influenced the initial perception of lockdowns as highly effective measures.

“Our meta-analysis suggests that when researchers account for additional variables, such as voluntary behaviour, the impact of lockdowns becomes negligible.”

Swedish model suggests voluntary change
Researchers said studies showed that voluntary behavioural change was more important than mandatory restrictions in combating Covid.

While Sweden had few compulsory restrictions, changes in consumer activity showed that older people stayed away from shops and restaurants at times as infections spread.

Prof Ferguson did not respond to the points made in the study.


In response to an earlier version of the paper, which did not include UK data, he said: “Disentangling the precise impact of individual NPIs [non pharmaceutical interventions] remains extremely challenging, not least because the most socially and economically disruptive measures (closing all non-essential businesses, stay at home orders) were generally used in combination and as last resorts on top of longer-term measures such as mask wearing.

“Analysis has been further complicated by the accumulation of immunity (from infection and vaccination) in populations together with the emergence of new Covid-19 variants. Distinguishing the relative effectiveness of mandates versus government recommendations – while clearly of political interest – is even more challenging, given the large between- (and even within-) country differences in population responses to both types of measures.”

A government spokesman said: “We are committed to learning from the Covid Inquiry’s findings, which will play a key role in informing the Government’s planning and preparations for the future.”

I for one am completely shocked - Shocked - That the fucking IEA prioritises 'the economy' over people's lives.
 
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There's quite a lot of mentions of voluntary behavioural change in there, do you remember what happened that first weekend when boris politely asked people not to go out to pubs and clubs? The UK public are generally thick as fucking shit and act like a bunch of entitled wankers, which is probably why they keep electing tory governments, and in all likelihood would not have undertaken the voluntary changes in behaviour required.

I would also like to know whether or not the study took into account what would have happened had our hospitals have become overrun with patients on ventilators, like actually happened in Italy. Many people only survived a covid infection because they received intensive medical care. What would have happened if that care had not been available, because of a lack of equipment, or a lack of trained medical staff because they were all at home with "flu".

Just looking at deaths is really small picture thinking.

This is a really salient point. Countries like Sweden and Japan are far more sensible and dare I say, mature, when it comes to this kind of thing. In fact I spent some time in Japan recently and it was a revelation for me just how differently society works there compared with the UK. The truth is exactly as you state; if the UK relied on voluntary measures, pretty much diddly fucking squat would have happened.
 
This is a really salient point. Countries like Sweden and Japan are far more sensible and dare I say, mature, when it comes to this kind of thing. In fact I spent some time in Japan recently and it was a revelation for me just how differently society works there compared with the UK. The truth is exactly as you state; if the UK relied on voluntary measures, pretty much diddly fucking squat would have happened.

Yes, I agree, not all people but enough to make a difference.
The Barnard Castle fuck up was a case in point, people took that as an excuse to do as they please under the proviso that if a Tory can do then so can they.

In general people did the right thing in reducing the spread of the virus by not mixing indoors.

Far Eastern countries generally are more compliant and even wore masks prior to the pandemic, plenty here thought having a mask round their chin was sufficient, a lot being fat people who likely were the most at risk had they caught it.

Facts are opinions on masks varied however sneezing into a mask/hanky etc. clearly reduced the amount of virus in the air if you had the virus.
 
Yes, I agree, not all people but enough to make a difference.
The Barnard Castle fuck up was a case in point, people took that as an excuse to do as they please under the proviso that if a Tory can do then so can they.

In general people did the right thing in reducing the spread of the virus by not mixing indoors.

Far Eastern countries generally are more compliant and even wore masks prior to the pandemic, plenty here thought having a mask round their chin was sufficient, a lot being fat people who likely were the most at risk had they caught it.

Facts are opinions on masks varied however sneezing into a mask/hanky etc. clearly reduced the amount of virus in the air if you had the virus.

That was because of SARS-1 and MERS wasn't it, which had a much nastier effect there so they sort of knew what was coming.

It didn't help that the original advice on mask wearing was based on incorrect data about what constitutes an aerosol (yeah, we all know, any tory MP etc...) from the WHO. It took some work by a PhD student to correct that particular decades old mistake.

that is another thing we should definitely learn, question all your preconceived and accepted facts as often as you can, to make sure they are still actually facts.

And the WHO needs overhaling so that it is not worried about upsetting any particular country.
 
That was because of SARS-1 and MERS wasn't it, which had a much nastier effect there so they sort of knew what was coming.

It didn't help that the original advice on mask wearing was based on incorrect data about what constitutes an aerosol (yeah, we all know, any tory MP etc...) from the WHO. It took some work by a PhD student to correct that particular decades old mistake.

that is another thing we should definitely learn, question all your preconceived and accepted facts as often as you can, to make sure they are still actually facts.

And the WHO needs overhaling so that it is not worried about upsetting any particular country.

dont forget the absolute messes that couldnt wear a mask because it stopped them breathing :D:o
 
It will probably conclude that everything was done to make a fat scruffy megalomaniac look good regardless of whether it was right or wrong.
 
It will probably conclude that everything was done to make a fat scruffy megalomaniac look good regardless of whether it was right or wrong.

My worry is that some fannys conclude that lockdowns should've been strict & for longer and they come up with some sort of threshold where governments begin to take action for outbreaks no where near as serious
 
My worry is that some fannys conclude that lockdowns should've been strict & for longer and they come up with some sort of threshold where governments begin to take action for outbreaks no where near as serious

Part of the problem as was the case was with COVID, is that viruses can develop so quickly, that it takes some time to work out how serious it is and also how it transmits. We then need to understand if it's likely to mutate into something more harmful and we need time to develop vaccines. It's impossible to know this sort of stuff on day one, so unfortunately, immediate action will often need to be pretty drastic.
 
That was because of SARS-1 and MERS wasn't it, which had a much nastier effect there so they sort of knew what was coming.

It didn't help that the original advice on mask wearing was based on incorrect data about what constitutes an aerosol (yeah, we all know, any tory MP etc...) from the WHO. It took some work by a PhD student to correct that particular decades old mistake.

that is another thing we should definitely learn, question all your preconceived and accepted facts as often as you can, to make sure they are still actually facts.

And the WHO needs overhaling so that it is not worried about upsetting any particular country.

Covid was far nastier, it killed millions of people around the world, plenty of countries didn’t bother counting the dead.

Vaccines and the virus mutating to be more upper respiratory saved millions upon millions of lives around the world.
 
Covid was far nastier, it killed millions of people around the world, plenty of countries didn’t bother counting the dead.

Vaccines and the virus mutating to be more upper respiratory saved millions upon millions of lives around the world.

Sorry, I meant SARS-1 and MERS were much nastier in the far east than they were here, so people who had been through that tended to take the warnings a little more seriously.
 
How can it possibly take 3 years!
 
I was pro lock down initially and complied throughout. Studies I have seen since have changed my opinion. I will try and find the exact research but a recent study suggested that just 1700 deaths from covid were halted as a result of the lockdown.

Compare this to those who lost their lives because of depression, lack of cancer checkups etc etc and it seems like lockdown was a complete waste of time and actually caused more deaths than it saved.

I was going to start a thread the other week when that study was published, then thought 'no point'.

The responses you have had serve to prove I was right.

You have to remember that the government ran an effective campaign, aimed a getting people to comply, therefore the vast majority are still convinced they did the right thing, all be it a bit too late.

My grandma was convinced carrots helped you see in the dark, right up and until she died. Once folk are convinced, they are convinced, even when you serve up fully researched, expert scientific opinion :D
 
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