NONSENSE: Conspiracy theories, nonsense and cranks

[fergieschewy]

Pretending that these vaccines have a danger margin that is any different from any other vaccine is full on crankism, I'm afraid.

Every medicine ever produced can cause adverse effects in people. It's usually written on the bottle as a warning. You take a very small gamble any time you put anything into your body that has been synthesised and anybody with an IQ in at least double figures understands that.

The risks around the vaccine were calculated and deemed acceptable and, lo and behold, in billions of vaccines administered there were zero - I'll say that again, zero - complications. A tiny percentage of people suffered adverse effects. Yes, that was to be expected.
Everyone else in the world has moved on with their lives, except for the couple of thousand people who have linked up on social media and who already had a paranoid distrust of the government/pharmacies prior to Covid anyway and are using what everyone else took as an acceptable risk as evidence in their utterly delusional theories.

There is literally no story here.

Bollox, and you call the others cranks. My brother in law has it in writing from eminent specialists that he is 100% damaged because of his jabs, he’s far from on his own in that respect too, he’s been told this by the people treating him. If it is as you say then there wouldn’t be the clamour for investigation by people who are seriously qualified to ask that question. You bang on about your training and expertise on the UAP thread and expect everything you say to be taken as gospel yet brush aside the credentials of those who you disagree with like a fucking baby.

 

[Old Iron Balls]

Bollox, and you call the others cranks. My brother in law has it in writing from eminent specialists that he is 100% damaged because of his jabs, he’s far from on his own in that respect too, he’s been told this by the people treating him. If it is as you say then there wouldn’t be the clamour for investigation by people who are seriously qualified to ask that question. You bang on about your training and expertise on the UAP thread and expect everything you say to be taken as gospel yet brush aside the credentials of those who you disagree with like a fucking baby.

AZ was linked to blood clots wasn’t it? it’s on the govs own website I think. Assume they don’t count though.

 

[wu203]

Bollox, and you call the others cranks. My brother in law has it in writing from eminent specialists that he is 100% damaged because of his jabs, he’s far from on his own in that respect too, he’s been told this by the people treating him. If it is as you say then there wouldn’t be the clamour for investigation by people who are seriously qualified to ask that question. You bang on about your training and expertise on the UAP thread and expect everything you say to be taken as gospel yet brush aside the credentials of those who you disagree with like a fucking baby.

But according to the muppets who clearly are fully asleep to what’s going on, your brother will be lying about his letter, I also have a friend who has confirmation in writing of vaccine induced pericarditis from a heart specialist at MRI. Some of these dicks have no clue what they speak on

 

[mockingbirdred]

Bollox, and you call the others cranks. My brother in law has it in writing from eminent specialists that he is 100% damaged because of his jabs, he’s far from on his own in that respect too, he’s been told this by the people treating him. If it is as you say then there wouldn’t be the clamour for investigation by people who are seriously qualified to ask that question. You bang on about your training and expertise on the UAP thread and expect everything you say to be taken as gospel yet brush aside the credentials of those who you disagree with like a fucking baby.

But according to the muppets who clearly are fully asleep to what’s going on, your brother will be lying about his letter, I also have a friend who has confirmation in writing of vaccine induced pericarditis from a heart specialist at MRI. Some of these dicks have no clue what they speak on

Right, so the brother in law and your friend reside within the acceptable margins for side effects. Billions - literally billions - don't.

Whats the problem?

AZ was linked to blood clots wasn’t it? it’s on the govs own website I think. Assume they don’t count though.

The gangs all here I see

Isn't it a bit coincidental how there's a bit of an overlap between UAP cranks and vaccine cranks?

Almost as though you were all already predisposed to not trust any organisation that you would describe with the prefix "big". Almost as though you all share a paranoid fantasy that the government are this all-seeing, all-controlling entity hellbent on population control.

One might suggest theres a pattern emerging...

While we're here, who do you think did 9/11?

 

[fergieschewy]

Right, so the brother in law and your friend reside within the acceptable margins for side effects. Billions - literally billions - don't.

Whats the problem?



The gangs all here I see

Isn't it a bit coincidental how there's a bit of an overlap between UAP cranks and vaccine cranks?

Almost as though you were all already predisposed to not trust any organisation that you would describe with the prefix "big". Almost as though you all share a paranoid fantasy that the government are this all-seeing, all-controlling entity hellbent on population control.

One might suggest theres a pattern emerging...

While we're here, who do you think did 9/11?

What a muppet. Do you know how difficult it is to get an official diagnosis for ‘ vaccine’ damage? My brother in law was told repeatedly that they could find nothing wrong with him and that it was in his head and only for a chance encounter at Warrington general did he finally manage to bypass the stonewalling . Luckily he’d worked in pro sports and especially Rugby League which led a former colleague to pass his case onto a specialist in London and hey presto. How many people have died without being as fortunate? How many people would roll their sleeves up for more jabs without pressure? You absolutely love to try to link anyone with doubts to any old conspiracy theory to try to justify your bias but it just makes you look like a bigger idiot to be honest, surprised you haven’t used the term” little green men “ yet.

 

[mockingbirdred]

What a muppet. Do you know how difficult it is to get an official diagnosis for ‘ vaccine’ damage? My brother in law was told repeatedly that they could find nothing wrong with him and that it was in his head and only for a chance encounter at Warrington general did he finally manage to bypass the stonewalling . Luckily he’d worked in pro sports and especially Rugby League which led a former colleague to pass his case onto a specialist in London and hey presto. How many people have died without being as fortunate? How many people would roll their sleeves up for more jabs without pressure? You absolutely love to try to link anyone with doubts to any old conspiracy theory to try to justify your bias but it just makes you look like a bigger idiot to be honest, surprised you haven’t used the term” little green men “ yet.

What bearing does any of that have on any point I have made?

I'm very sorry your brother in law is having health problems, but it doesn't change a thing - billions of vaccines were administered with no problems whatsoever, and your brother-in-law sits in the statistically tiny margin of people adversely affected. The information was available from the get go that this vaccine - like literally every other medicine ever made - could have harmful side effects in a very small number of people.

It's like arguing that because some people occasionally get knocked over and killed at pedestrian crossings, that the government needs to do a massive review into why it allowed so many pedestrian crossing to be built around the country. It doesn't, because everyone understands there is a small risk you take when crossing a road. The exact same thing applies to medicine. If the doctor prescribes me something I've never taken before, there could be unwanted side effects. It's happened to me, in fact - it doesn't mean I should then try and group up with a load of other ill-informed people and lobby the government to ban that medication forever, when there may be millions of people who take it routinely with no adverse effects at all.

And as for the conspiracy part - find me an anti-vaxxer that doesn't also believe in one or all of the following:

9/11 was an inside job
JFK was assassinated by someone other than Lee Harvey Oswald
The government are covering up UAPs
The moon landings were faked
Covid 19 was an exercise in population control
Princess Diana was murdered

and so on... As I said, anyone see a pattern emerging?

 

[fergieschewy]

What bearing does any of that have on any point I have made?

I'm very sorry your brother in law is having health problems, but it doesn't change a thing - billions of vaccines were administered with no problems whatsoever, and your brother-in-law sits in the statistically tiny margin of people adversely affected. The information was available from the get go that this vaccine - like literally every other medicine ever made - could have harmful side effects in a very small number of people.

It's like arguing that because some people occasionally get knocked over and killed at pedestrian crossings, that the government needs to do a massive review into why it allowed so many pedestrian crossing to be built around the country. It doesn't, because everyone understands there is a small risk you take when crossing a road. The exact same thing applies to medicine. If the doctor prescribes me something I've never taken before, there could be unwanted side effects. It's happened to me, in fact - it doesn't mean I should then try and group up with a load of other ill-informed people and lobby the government to ban that medication forever, when there may be millions of people who take it routinely with no adverse effects at all.

And as for the conspiracy part - find me an anti-vaxxer that doesn't also believe in one or all of the following:

9/11 was an inside job
JFK was assassinated by someone other than Lee Harvey Oswald
The government are covering up UAPs
The moon landings were faked
Covid 19 was an exercise in population control
Princess Diana was murdered

and so on... As I said, anyone see a pattern emerging?

How do you know it’s a tiny percentage when that diagnosis is extremely difficult to get? Are you dismissing the concerns of all those that are qualified to comment? It would be better for you to concentrate on this issue instead of chucking in conspiracy theories to try to justify your scepticism.

 

[mockingbirdred]

How do you know it’s a tiny percentage when that diagnosis is extremely difficult to get? Are you dismissing the concerns of all those that are qualified to comment? It would be better for you to concentrate on this issue instead of chucking in conspiracy theories to try to justify your scepticism.

Because it just is. There's been plenty of research in real, peer-reviewed journals that have have drawn that conclusion and that conclusions has been scrutinised, tested, and recreated, as is the point of the peer-review process.

Aside from that, there are billions of people who have had it and report no adverse side effects. I'm one, and so is every single person I know. Even if you only took me and all the people I know as a single subset of data, you would find a couple of hundred people who have had the vaccine, with zero cases of ill effects - a 0% study. And that's true for the majority of people. Even the people who know people who HAVE been adversely affected, also know many, many more people who have not.

Other than your brother in law, how many people do you personally who have had adverse side effects to the vaccine? How many do you know who haven't?

But none of that matters - the studies into the safety of the vaccines have demonstrated beyond any reasonable doubt that they are safe, as is evidence by the billions of people who had them and have no ill effects.

Also, I'd like to point out for the record that you believe that the US government is hiding information on UAPs, and that we've been visited by aliens.

And I'm pretty sure you're into your Kennedy conspiracies too. And 9/11.

Just saying.

 

[mockingbirdred]

And while you're here, this is from the link you posted earlier:

For every million doses given of the monovalent Pfizer/BioNTech vaccine, there have been 10 reports of myocarditis and 6 reports of pericarditis, according to the Medicines and Healthcare products Regulatory Agency (as of 23 November 2022). There have been 14 reports of myocarditis and 8 reports of pericarditis for every million doses given of the monovalent Moderna vaccine over the same period.

While reports of myocarditis following any Covid-19 vaccine are rare, cases are more common in young males aged 18 to 29 years following the second dose. Most people who have been affected have experienced a mild illness and recovered without medical treatment.

Myocarditis can cause heart scarring that can be detected with cardiac MRI – there is a small chance of scarring causing a life-threatening arrhythmia in the future, and therefore people who are affected are likely to be offered long-term follow-up and monitoring.

Research has found that Covid-19 itself is much more likely to cause myocarditis than the vaccine is, and people who are vaccinated have a much lower risk of getting other serious complications caused by Covid-19.

16 in a million and 22 in a million.

0.0016% and 0.0022% respectively.

I think that qualifies as "rare".

 

[fergieschewy]

Because it just is. There's been plenty of research in real, peer-reviewed journals that have have drawn that conclusion and that conclusions has been scrutinised, tested, and recreated, as is the point of the peer-review process.

Aside from that, there are billions of people who have had it and report no adverse side effects. I'm one, and so is every single person I know. Even if you only took me and all the people I know as a single subset of data, you would find a couple of hundred people who have had the vaccine, with zero cases of ill effects - a 0% study. And that's true for the majority of people. Even the people who know people who HAVE been adversely affected, also know many, many more people who have not.

Other than your brother in law, how many people do you personally who have had adverse side effects to the vaccine? How many do you know who haven't?

But none of that matters - the studies into the safety of the vaccines have demonstrated beyond any reasonable doubt that they are safe, as is evidence by the billions of people who had them and have no ill effects.

Also, I'd like to point out for the record that you believe that the US government is hiding information on UAPs, and that we've been visited by aliens.

And I'm pretty sure you're into your Kennedy conspiracies too. And 9/11.

Just saying.

My brother in law speaking to Dr John Campbell last week, his symptoms are shared by many but like I said earlier ( but you ignore) getting a diagnosis is really difficult. I know a fair few people who have suffered post vaccine to varying degrees including death despite being ale n hearty just before, look at the number of adverse reactions reported by just the Pfizer one for instance. What do you make of the people who are raising doubts now publicly, wanting open debate and investigations? People more than qualified to comment should be shown some regard don’t you think or does that just apply to you?

Your opinions on other conspiracy theories are just that, opinions based on who’s version you choose to believe ie confirmation bias.

Just a little one on JFK, and I’ve pointed out to you before, Operation Northwoods was suggested by the CIA and the Gulf of Tonkin was used to escalate conflict with Vietnam , but they’d never kill a President that threatened their power would they. Pointless circular debates anyway, watch our Adam then tell me how insignificant the situation is.

 

[mockingbirdred]

My brother in law speaking to Dr John Campbell last week, his symptoms are shared by many but like I said earlier ( but you ignore) getting a diagnosis is really difficult. I know a fair few people who have suffered post vaccine to varying degrees including death despite being ale n hearty just before, look at the number of adverse reactions reported by just the Pfizer one for instance. What do you make of the people who are raising doubts now publicly, wanting open debate and investigations? People more than qualified to comment should be shown some regard don’t you think or does that just apply to you?

Your opinions on other conspiracy theories are just that, opinions based on who’s version you choose to believe ie confirmation bias.

Just a little one on JFK, and I’ve pointed out to you before, Operation Northwoods was suggested by the CIA and the Gulf of Tonkin was used to escalate conflict with Vietnam , but they’d never kill a President that threatened their power would they. Pointless circular debates anyway, watch our Adam then tell me how insignificant the situation is.

So, to summarise, your argument is "its difficult to get a diagnosis, therefore it's definitely vaccines".

 

[mockingbirdred]

Also John Campbell started out quite good, but eventually veered wildly into absolute bullshit.

His views on this stuff have been widely discredited by medical professionals. I would quite happily ignore anything he has to say these days.

 

[worthysmokers]

So, to summarise, your argument is "its difficult to get a diagnosis, therefore it's definitely vaccines".

What he’s saying is, if as you believe they know there will be injured people and it’s accepted as a small %, then why are they trying to surpress the diagnosis.

Why don’t they just say, “yes I’m very sorry it is because of the vaccine, but you’re in the 0.022%.

 

[mockingbirdred]

What he’s saying is, if as you believe they know there will be injured people and it’s accepted as a small %, then why are they trying to surpress the diagnosis.

Why don’t they just say, “yes I’m very sorry it is because of the vaccine, but you’re in the 0.022%.

How, exactly, are they "suppressing" it?

Stop using loaded terms.

 

[worthysmokers]

How, exactly, are they "suppressing" it?

Stop using loaded terms.

Fergie said; “when that diagnosis is extremely difficult to get?”

So I think he’s saying if it’s widely accepted as you say, why is is the diagnosis extremely difficult to get?, surley this would also mean people give up and accept the wrong diagnosis keeping numbers lower?

 

[mockingbirdred]

Fergie said; “when that diagnosis is extremely difficult to get?”

So I think he’s saying if it’s widely accepted as you say, why is is the diagnosis extremely difficult to get?, surley this would also mean people give up and accept the wrong diagnosis keeping numbers lower?

Have you been to a GP recently mate? Its fucking hard to get a diagnosis for anything.

I've been trying to help someone get diagnosed as an adult for ADHD for the last year, for example - it's fucking impossible. The NHS is hugely overloaded, understaffed, and underfunded. They've cut services left right and centre, making getting a diagnosis for anything difficult.

So are you really, genuinely wondering what could possibly be the reason for it being difficult to get diagnosed with a condition that has already been demonstrated to be very rare, and that is being demanded by absolute cranks that are happy to waste medical professionals time and resources in pursuit of their ridiculous agenda?

No, you're right, it's definitely government "suppression" thats the problem and not a decade of Tory underfunding, and a massive misinfirmation campaign by people who won't ever fucking learn.

 

[worthysmokers]

Have you been to a GP recently mate? Its fucking hard to get a diagnosis for anything.

I've been trying to help someone get diagnosed as an adult for ADHD for the last year, for example - it's fucking impossible. The NHS is hugely overloaded, understaffed, and underfunded. They've cut services left right and centre, making getting a diagnosis for anything difficult.

So are you really, genuinely wondering what could possibly be the reason for it being difficult to get diagnosed with a condition that has already been demonstrated to be very rare, and that is being demanded by absolute cranks that are happy to waste medical professionals time and resources in pursuit of their ridiculous agenda?

No, you're right, it's definitely government "suppression" thats the problem and not a decade of Tory underfunding, and a massive misinfirmation campaign by people who won't ever fucking learn.

No, I just understand what he means

 

[fergieschewy]

No, I just understand what he means

So does he but he’s being his usual contrary self. Wants respect when his ‘ profession’ is involved but seems fine with dismissing others in theirs when it suits him. I honestly don’t know how anyone can watch that discussion and dismiss it so easily.

Oh and comparing getting an ADHD diagnosis to something that’s possibly fatal is ridiculous, one kind of trumps the other for me especially when it has possible links to a mass medical intervention.

 

[Old Iron Balls]

So does he but he’s being his usual contrary self. Wants respect when his ‘ profession’ is involved but seems fine with dismissing others in theirs when it suits him. I honestly don’t know how anyone can watch that discussion and dismiss it so easily.

Oh and comparing getting an ADHD diagnosis to something that’s possibly fatal is ridiculous, one kind of trumps the other for me especially when it has possible links to a mass medical intervention.

I honestly don’t know why you expected anything different, You should know his MO by now.

Sorry to hear about your brother by the way, he’s been through some shit because of this safe and effective vaccine that has caused ‘absolutely zero issues’

 

[fergieschewy]

I honestly don’t know why you expected anything different, You should know his MO by now.

Sorry to hear about your brother by the way, he’s been through some shit because of this safe and effective vaccine that has caused ‘absolutely zero issues’

Aye I know, he’s one cherry picking twat at times. People may think that my brother in law is damaged by his jabs then that is my sole reason for commenting, it’s not. My daughter had hers to go on holiday ffs, a then 22 year old fitness fanatic with post Covid antibodies so I worry about her and millions like her. I watched a 17 year old lad drop ‘ dead’ at football training just after he’d had his to go away with his parents , luckily saved by 6 bangs of the defib and heart massage.
An interesting bit in our Adam’s piece was the fact that his heart problems don’t stem from lifestyle as you’d expect , fit as a fiddle. Like he said there have been something like 75,000 reports of adverse reactions in the Pfizer one alone, cause for investigation by anyone’s standards but it’s dismissed by those that aren’t too keen on pulling back the curtain. Maybe we should all “ just move on “ from that eh.

 

[Old Iron Balls]

Aye I know, he’s one cherry picking twat at times. People may think that my brother in law is damaged by his jabs then that is my sole reason for commenting, it’s not. My daughter had hers to go on holiday ffs, a then 22 year old fitness fanatic with post Covid antibodies so I worry about her and millions like her. I watched a 17 year old lad drop ‘ dead’ at football training just after he’d had his to go away with his pa

It’s pointless, he’s never ever going to agree with you or cede ground in any argument, all of your sources are full of shit and his aren’t. As I’ve said a few times he’s exactly like MKR (cunt) but with added ChatGPT, stop wasting your finite time and energy on him. When you’re claiming the vaccines caused zero issues yet one of them was banned in various countries…like they do for safe and effective medicines.


Yep, I hear you, it seems most who I talk to know someone who had issues post jab, One of my mates had a stroke and lost sight in one eye.

 

[mockingbirdred]

all of your sources are full of shit and his aren’t.

You've finally realised it.

As for the rest of you, I'll just stop posting if you fucking fannies are going to get so upset again. I really don't give a shit. No amount of circle jerking bullshit from all your favourite Youtube and Twitter sources is going to make you right.

Enjoy yourselves.

 

[fergieschewy]

You've finally realised it.

As for the rest of you, I'll just stop posting if you fucking fannies are going to get so upset again. I really don't give a shit. No amount of circle jerking bullshit from all your favourite Youtube and Twitter sources is going to make you right.

Enjoy yourselves.

Wonder how many times you’ve replied since the last time you said “ I’m not replying any more “ .

 

[worthysmokers]

Mockers will also argue the Beatles were shit and genuinely believe he’s right, in my opinion that’s like being a musical flat earther.

 

[fergieschewy]

He must be one of the few that actually believes that LHO was a lone gunman, think Sir Alex disagrees on that and he’s very well up on that subject.

 

[Old Iron Balls]

He must be one of the few that actually believes that LHO was a lone gunman, think Sir Alex disagrees on that and he’s very well up on that subject.

He tosses the phrase ‘conspiracy theorist’ (and ‘anti vaxxer’) around then contradicts himself by suggesting a conspiracy when it comes to Grusch and co.

Best ignored as he just wants an argument, nothing more.

 

[Krom]

So, in short, there isn't a demonstrable link between vaccines and an increase in heart conditions, except in very rare cases - which is absolutely no different to any other vaccine ever created ever and information that has been available to the general public since the very get go.

I'm going to help you out here, because you've your head buried so far in the sand of denial, you actually sound like a deluded denialist crank yourself. Your problem, that you're blindsided to as an academic, is that it's the practitioners on the ground, dealing with the cases and observing what is happening, that are the experts. Not the ivory tower academics, who perform questionable "peer review" that leads to retraction in many cases.

So, what are those practitioners seeing in Australia?

Australia's Medicare Benefits Schedule created service code 63399 for claim reimbursement in late 2021. This service code is for an MRI test that detects mRNA vaccine induced Myocarditis, in borderline cases where ECG, Troponin & X-Ray aren't able to definitively determine diagnosis. This code was commissioned because, wait for it, there is a demonstrable link between the mRNA vaccines & the cardiac conditions that has been observed on the ground by healthcare practitioners! Do you think they just conjure up these tests and services for the "bantz" otherwise? Do you think the Australia Department Of Health watched a "Conspiracy Crank" Youtube video, "fell for the grift" and decided to create it then? Or do you, once again with your misplaced hubris, think you know better than the Australia Department Of Health?

Short answer, you don't.

https://www.mbsonline.gov.au/internet/mbsonline/publishing.nsf/Content/509C2159875B8BF7CA2587AD00175660/$File/Factsheet-cardiac-MRI-myocarditis-COVID-19-vaccination%2001.04.22%20-%20Final.pdf

Now, the service was to end on 31st December 2022, but wait, what happened? That's right, they extended it until 31st December 2023!

https://www.mbsonline.gov.au/internet/mbsonline/publishing.nsf/Content/B046A02270523B4DCA2589170002FADC/$File/Continuation%20of%20MBS%20item%2063399%20-%20cardiac%20MRI%20for%20myocarditis.pdf

Do you think a service code gets extended if there's no demonstrable link between a vaccination product and an adverse effect? If they were so sure of the safety of the vaccine, surely the service would have been de-commissioned because, well, there's nobody claiming the test and so pointless retaining it?

Wrong Mockers! It's because there is a demonstrable link between the two.

So how many times was service code 63399 claimed against in the past 2 years?

Over 2,000 times. For a test to diagnose borderline outlier cases. "Rare" is it?

If even half of those tests were returned positive, it would be a thousand too many. And that doesn't take into account the diagnoses that were possible with traditional non-MRI methods.

Medicare Australia - Statistics - Medicare Benefits Schedule (MBS) Item Statistics

Now we're approaching Feb 2024, and even I thought they'd have decommissioned the service now, given they'd have whatever data they think they needed by this point. But imagine my shock! The service code was extended again until the end of 2024.

Wow Mockers! For an mRNA vaccine that has, and I quote you:

in billions of vaccines administered there were zero - I'll say that again, zero - complications

, they aren't half flogging this MRI test are they?! Maybe, just maybe, you're completely out of your depth on this?

https://www.mbsonline.gov.au/internet/mbsonline/publishing.nsf/Content/Factsheet+-+cardiac+MRI+for+myocarditis+COVID-19+vaccination+extension

So who else does Mockers think he knows better than? None other than the former President of the Australian Medical Association, Dr. Kerryn Phelps!

Not just her experiencing a COVID vaccine related injury. But her wife too! Two injuries in the same household! How could this possibly happen when Mockers tells us there have been "Zero" complications to the vaccines?! Surely if the vaccine injuries/deaths were so "rare", it would be statistically improbable that there would be two in the same household?!

Or perhaps, possibly, they're not as "rare" as Mockers falsely claims?

I'm not expecting Mockers to watch the above video as his world view would be smashed to smithereens, but I would strongly encourage others to do so. And I would particularly pay close attention to around 2:10 onwards. Because that important question asked by the anchor is why Mockers falsely believes the bit in bold below...

And you are failing to acknowledge that there aren't any reviews into the areas you want reviews in because the people who are "Life Sciences Academic" - whatever that means - deem those studies to be pointless and a waste of resources.

Well Mockers, if you knew what a Life Scientist was, you might have enough of a clue to not have such a grossly misinformed opinion as you do now. Hell, if you were one, instead of a digital effects person, then you might even understand why your position is laughably delusional.

The claim that there are no reviews above is in fact a lie.

Despite the lack of doctors and scientists speaking out for fear of the regulatory reprisal intimated by the news anchor and Dr. Phelps, fortunately there are more and more who are speaking out & publishing about the links:

Peer reviewed.

Peer reviewed.

Peer reviewed.

Peer reviewed. Likely underestimating the effect given study limitations & short duration.

That's just for the Myocarditis links. I've already shared the peer reviewed immune tolerance impacts of elevated IgG4 from the mRNA vaccines upthread. And the DNA contamination in the mRNA vaccines.

The risks around the vaccine were calculated and deemed acceptable and, lo and behold, in billions of vaccines administered there were zero - I'll say that again, zero - complications. A tiny percentage of people suffered adverse effects. Yes, that was to be expected.
Everyone else in the world has moved on with their lives, except for the couple of thousand people who have linked up on social media and who already had a paranoid distrust of the government/pharmacies prior to Covid anyway and are using what everyone else took as an acceptable risk as evidence in their utterly delusional theories.

There is literally no story here.

This, above, is the most criminally negligent rhetoric. "Billions of doses administered and zero complications". Even if that were true (narrator: it isn't), you don't fucking stick that shit into the wider population without long term clinical safety data. When you do a Life Sciences degree Mockers, you learn in Pharma 101, that 'long term' means 5-7 years through the four phases. At least.

If you do stick that shit into billions of people without long term clinical safety data, you end up with the excess deaths observed now in the likes of the EUROMOMO paediatric data, even years after the peak of the pandemic.

And back to the original point, you end up with more punters collapsing in the stands. Again, just to labour the point. That doesn't mean that *every* punter in the stands that collapses is because of the vaccine. But it is criminally negligent to bury one's head in the sand at this point and not investigate thoroughly and properly what the effect is.

We get it Mockers. You were one of the most vociferous during the Pandemic about "The Science" and "The Cranks". We get you lined up diligently, put yourself at risk, perhaps encouraged others to do the same. It's unpalatable to consider that you might have put yourself and loved ones at risk, so it's easier to bury one's head in the sand and pretend there's nothing to see here. We understand that you have to double, triple and quadruple down as the data and evidence gradually crumbles the narrative around you. Some of us took the jabs, and then changed our view with the data. Others will have to die on the hill.

But do yourself a favour. Stop pretending you're as informed on this topic as you really are. The Australian Department Of Health and the former President Of the Australian Medical Association, among a growing list of others, disagree with you.

You would do well to listen...

 

[Krom]

We know that athletes are fitter these days, especially top class athletes and athletes in general are pushing their bodies harder and harder to compete. The stakes are higher than they have ever been and with the pressure and money that can be made, and with more athletes pushing harder, there are bound to be more cases of people pushing to much and ending up with serious problem. Every human body has a limit and that limit is being pushed to extremes and it’s not just at the top level where this is happening, the competition down the levels is increasing for those who haven’t made it yet, and medical monitoring is no where near as robust.

The above coupled with changing protocol at sports events regarding medical incidents in the crowd, more attention is being paid to incidents that have always happened with large crowds of people, but we never got to hear about it. Throw in the side effects and problems we are now hearing about with the covid vaccines and it’s a conspiracy theorists busman’s holiday, when it’s a combination of events and makes logical sense when you think about it, and not just because of one specific cause which some people are adamant it is.

I refer the honourable gentlemen to my two detailed responses to Mockers.

There is sufficient signal to warrant a detailed independent investigation, with no vested interest from the pharmaceutical industry, government or public health regulators.

 

[fergieschewy]

I'm going to help you out here, because you've your head buried so far in the sand of denial, you actually sound like a deluded denialist crank yourself. Your problem, that you're blindsided to as an academic, is that it's the practitioners on the ground, dealing with the cases and observing what is happening, that are the experts. Not the ivory tower academics, who perform questionable "peer review" that leads to retraction in many cases.

So, what are those practitioners seeing in Australia?

Australia's Medicare Benefits Schedule created service code 63399 for claim reimbursement in late 2021. This service code is for an MRI test that detects mRNA vaccine induced Myocarditis, in borderline cases where ECG, Troponin & X-Ray aren't able to definitively determine diagnosis. This code was commissioned because, wait for it, there is a demonstrable link between the mRNA vaccines & the cardiac conditions that has been observed on the ground by healthcare practitioners! Do you think they just conjure up these tests and services for the "bantz" otherwise? Do you think the Australia Department Of Health watched a "Conspiracy Crank" Youtube video, "fell for the grift" and decided to create it then? Or do you, once again with your misplaced hubris, think you know better than the Australia Department Of Health?

Short answer, you don't.

https://www.mbsonline.gov.au/internet/mbsonline/publishing.nsf/Content/509C2159875B8BF7CA2587AD00175660/$File/Factsheet-cardiac-MRI-myocarditis-COVID-19-vaccination%2001.04.22%20-%20Final.pdf

Now, the service was to end on 31st December 2022, but wait, what happened? That's right, they extended it until 31st December 2023!

https://www.mbsonline.gov.au/internet/mbsonline/publishing.nsf/Content/B046A02270523B4DCA2589170002FADC/$File/Continuation%20of%20MBS%20item%2063399%20-%20cardiac%20MRI%20for%20myocarditis.pdf

Do you think a service code gets extended if there's no demonstrable link between a vaccination product and an adverse effect? If they were so sure of the safety of the vaccine, surely the service would have been de-commissioned because, well, there's nobody claiming the test and so pointless retaining it?

Wrong Mockers! It's because there is a demonstrable link between the two.

So how many times was service code 63399 claimed against in the past 2 years?

Over 2,000 times. For a test to diagnose borderline outlier cases. "Rare" is it?

If even half of those tests were returned positive, it would be a thousand too many. And that doesn't take into account the diagnoses that were possible with traditional non-MRI methods.

Medicare Australia - Statistics - Medicare Benefits Schedule (MBS) Item Statistics

Now we're approaching Feb 2024, and even I thought they'd have decommissioned the service now, given they'd have whatever data they think they needed by this point. But imagine my shock! The service code was extended again until the end of 2024.

Wow Mockers! For an mRNA vaccine that has, and I quote you:

, they aren't half flogging this MRI test are they?! Maybe, just maybe, you're completely out of your depth on this?

https://www.mbsonline.gov.au/internet/mbsonline/publishing.nsf/Content/Factsheet+-+cardiac+MRI+for+myocarditis+COVID-19+vaccination+extension

So who else does Mockers think he knows better than? None other than the former President of the Australian Medical Association, Dr. Kerryn Phelps!

Not just her experiencing a COVID vaccine related injury. But her wife too! Two injuries in the same household! How could this possibly happen when Mockers tells us there have been "Zero" complications to the vaccines?! Surely if the vaccine injuries/deaths were so "rare", it would be statistically improbable that there would be two in the same household?!

Or perhaps, possibly, they're not as "rare" as Mockers falsely claims?

I'm not expecting Mockers to watch the above video as his world view would be smashed to smithereens, but I would strongly encourage others to do so. And I would particularly pay close attention to around 2:10 onwards. Because that important question asked by the anchor is why Mockers falsely believes the bit in bold below...



Well Mockers, if you knew what a Life Scientist was, you might have enough of a clue to not have such a grossly misinformed opinion as you do now. Hell, if you were one, instead of a digital effects person, then you might even understand why your position is laughably delusional.

The claim that there are no reviews above is in fact a lie.

Despite the lack of doctors and scientists speaking out for fear of the regulatory reprisal intimated by the news anchor and Dr. Phelps, fortunately there are more and more who are speaking out & publishing about the links:

Peer reviewed.

Peer reviewed.

Peer reviewed.

Peer reviewed. Likely underestimating the effect given study limitations & short duration.

That's just for the Myocarditis links. I've already shared the peer reviewed immune tolerance impacts of elevated IgG4 from the mRNA vaccines upthread. And the DNA contamination in the mRNA vaccines.


This, above, is the most criminally negligent rhetoric. "Billions of doses administered and zero complications". Even if that were true (narrator: it isn't), you don't fucking stick that shit into the wider population without long term clinical safety data. When you do a Life Sciences degree Mockers, you learn in Pharma 101, that 'long term' means 5-7 years through the four phases. At least.

If you do stick that shit into billions of people without long term clinical safety data, you end up with the excess deaths observed now in the likes of the EUROMOMO paediatric data, even years after the peak of the pandemic.

And back to the original point, you end up with more punters collapsing in the stands. Again, just to labour the point. That doesn't mean that *every* punter in the stands that collapses is because of the vaccine. But it is criminally negligent to bury one's head in the sand at this point and not investigate thoroughly and properly what the effect is.

We get it Mockers. You were one of the most vociferous during the Pandemic about "The Science" and "The Cranks". We get you lined up diligently, put yourself at risk, perhaps encouraged others to do the same. It's unpalatable to consider that you might have put yourself and loved ones at risk, so it's easier to bury one's head in the sand and pretend there's nothing to see here. We understand that you have to double, triple and quadruple down as the data and evidence gradually crumbles the narrative around you. Some of us took the jabs, and then changed our view with the data. Others will have to die on the hill.

But do yourself a favour. Stop pretending you're as informed on this topic as you really are. The Australian Department Of Health and the former President Of the Australian Medical Association, among a growing list of others, disagree with you.

You would do well to listen...

Probably another one you won’t get a response to.

 

[Old Iron Balls]

Top draw evidence based post as per usual Krom, thanks for taking the time to put all of that together.

I was surprised to see MBR not engage with your previous posts on this subject given he’s “all over” the covid and vaccine threads, apparently.

Like you touched on you’ll have people wanting to justify their decisions and willing to die on Mount Covid, so it won’t make much difference to him I think.

Also, and more importantly - It’s a shit show by whoever decided to move this thread that your post is basically in the forum bin and people will continue to be misinformed by not seeing it.

 

[worthysmokers]

Top draw evidence based post as per usual Krom, thanks for taking the time to put all of that together.

I was surprised to see MBR not engage with your previous posts on this subject given he’s “all over” the covid and vaccine threads, apparently.

Like you touched on you’ll have people wanting to justify their decisions and willing to die on Mount Covid, so it won’t make much difference to him I think.

Also, and more importantly - It’s a shit show by whoever decided to move this thread that your post is basically in the forum bin and people will continue to be misinformed by not seeing it.

Considering the crap that gets left on the main forum, posted by the likes of Wayne.

 

[mockingbirdred]

Probably another one you won’t get a response to.

On the contrary, I'll respond to Krom because he - despite the fact that I can already sense that I'm going to disagree with a lot of what he's written, and have no doubt been deliberately taken out of context as is so often the case when arguing this subject - can at the very least put forward an argument based on evidence that doesn't just devolve into pointless ad hominems, or me having to explain how rational thinking works just so people can continue to argue with me about it.

I'm going to help you out here, because you've your head buried so far in the sand of denial, you actually sound like a deluded denialist crank yourself. Your problem, that you're blindsided to as an academic, is that it's the practitioners on the ground, dealing with the cases and observing what is happening, that are the experts. Not the ivory tower academics, who perform questionable "peer review" that leads to retraction in many cases.

Ok, first point - nothing in that linked Nature article mentions retractions about vaccine safety data, or anything similar.

In fact, I suspect that what they're actually talking about is more the kind of articles that I have consistently rallied against - deliberate misinformation, unverified sources, vague evidence-less abstracts, etc. If you care to actually look further into what that article is talking about and follow the threads - they mention the name Joachim Boldt as being the worst offender, who now holds the record for most retractions, and then look at the work that is being retracted you'll find that it's nothing to do with Covid. The bloke is an anaesthesiologist: https://www.bjanaesthesia.org/article/S0007-0912(20)30163-X/fulltext

So whilst that's an interesting article on surface level, there is absolutley nothign in there that suggests it's discussing covid vaccine data. At all. To suggest it is is a link that you have decided upon. It's dealing with fraudulent research, nothing more, and the only example it references directly has literally nothign to do with Covid - go check the titles of his papers.

So, what are those practitioners seeing in Australia?

Australia's Medicare Benefits Schedule created service code 63399 for claim reimbursement in late 2021. This service code is for an MRI test that detects mRNA vaccine induced Myocarditis, in borderline cases where ECG, Troponin & X-Ray aren't able to definitively determine diagnosis. This code was commissioned because, wait for it, there is a demonstrable link between the mRNA vaccines & the cardiac conditions that has been observed on the ground by healthcare practitioners! Do you think they just conjure up these tests and services for the "bantz" otherwise? Do you think the Australia Department Of Health watched a "Conspiracy Crank" Youtube video, "fell for the grift" and decided to create it then? Or do you, once again with your misplaced hubris, think you know better than the Australia Department Of Health?

Short answer, you don't.

https://www.mbsonline.gov.au/internet/mbsonline/publishing.nsf/Content/509C2159875B8BF7CA2587AD00175660/$File/Factsheet-cardiac-MRI-myocarditis-COVID-19-vaccination%2001.04.22%20-%20Final.pdf

Of course there's a demonstrable link, how else would they be able to come up with the figures I mentioned earlier if there wasn't?

There's a couple of interesting points in that fact sheet though which, I will agree, clearly states that the purpose is to test for myocarditis related to vaccine use. It's this: "the patient had symptom onset within 21 days of a mRNA COVID-19 vaccine administration;" and "Applicable not more than once in a patient’s lifetime".

So, maybe I'm reading it wrong, but to me that suggests that A) they're only treating myocarditis cases if they occur within 21 days of a vaccination - which is to say that if it occurs later than 21 days, it's reasonable to assume that it's NOT been brought on by the vaccine and is in fact something else - and B) that they're only allowing people to do this once per their lifetime. Again, perhaps I'm reading this wrong, but does that not suggest a reluctance to indulge people making these claims? Does it not hint that there are people who are claiming this and want multiple MRI scans to try and get the "evidence" they desire? I admit I'm reading between the lines a little, but it's interesting that they make these very specific stipulations.

This has never been about whether or not certain people have negative side effects from the covid vaccine - I have never, ever disputed that - it's been about how many is deemed within safe margins. It's my belief that the number of people that have suffered side effects is comfortably within the safety margin and a perfectly acceptable risk in ending the pandemic early. If you disagree with that, that's fine - I've never argued that you shouldn't be allowed to have that point of view, but when people are going to try and take medical journals - like the one above - completely out of context to make a bullshit point about "government suppression" or to suggest that the data collected and evaluated by many, many independent top-of-their-field institutes is wrong, but some retired nurses Youtube channel is the be all and end all of the vaccine argument, then that's where I take issue. If you think that one death from vaccination is one too many, that's totally fine and you're entitled to think that. I fundamentally disagree, if the end result is that potentially hundreds, thousands, millions of lives are saved in the process.

My other point on this - and this is where it ties into conspiracy cases - is that a LOT of people on your side of this argument (not necessarily suggesting this includes you by the way, I don't know if it does or not) don't really give a fuck about the health issues argument and instead have latched onto this argument because they see it as one of the government trying to crack down on personal liberties as part of this dystopian "great reset" that they love banging on about - whilst ironically missing the point that they didn't take the vaccine and nobody made them; personal liberties intact. Even if you personally don't subscribe to that view, you cannot deny that wherever debate around vaccines occurs, conspiracy theorism is but a half step behind. I'd appreciate if you acknowledged that fact, if only to distance yourself from it.

 

[mockingbirdred]

Now, the service was to end on 31st December 2022, but wait, what happened? That's right, they extended it until 31st December 2023!

https://www.mbsonline.gov.au/internet/mbsonline/publishing.nsf/Content/B046A02270523B4DCA2589170002FADC/$File/Continuation%20of%20MBS%20item%2063399%20-%20cardiac%20MRI%20for%20myocarditis.pdf

Do you think a service code gets extended if there's no demonstrable link between a vaccination product and an adverse effect? If they were so sure of the safety of the vaccine, surely the service would have been de-commissioned because, well, there's nobody claiming the test and so pointless retaining it?

Wrong Mockers! It's because there is a demonstrable link between the two.

So how many times was service code 63399 claimed against in the past 2 years?

Over 2,000 times. For a test to diagnose borderline outlier cases. "Rare" is it?

If even half of those tests were returned positive, it would be a thousand too many. And that doesn't take into account the diagnoses that were possible with traditional non-MRI methods.

See above.

And how many vaccinations were distributed in Australia?

69.9 Million: https://www.health.gov.au/sites/def...19-vaccine-rollout-update-12-january-2024.pdf

So yes, it's very fucking rare. 0.014% of cases, in fact, so actually statistically lower than you would expect, given the data we have. But you've proved my point for me, so cheers.

Medicare Australia - Statistics - Medicare Benefits Schedule (MBS) Item Statistics

Now we're approaching Feb 2024, and even I thought they'd have decommissioned the service now, given they'd have whatever data they think they needed by this point. But imagine my shock! The service code was extended again until the end of 2024.

Wow Mockers! For an mRNA vaccine that has, and I quote you:

in billions of vaccines administered there were zero - I'll say that again, zero - complications

, they aren't half flogging this MRI test are they?! Maybe, just maybe, you're completely out of your depth on this?

Doesn't look like it.

And I knew I wouldn't be able to get from one end of this post to the other without you deliberately taking me out of context:

When I said "in billions of vaccines administered there were zero - I'll say that again, zero - complications" what I'm saying is that if you take away the people who had complications, the number of people that didn't is STILL in the billions. That was absolutely obviously the point I was making in the context of my other posts. Either you didn't understand what I was saying, or you deliberately took it out of context.

https://www.mbsonline.gov.au/internet/mbsonline/publishing.nsf/Content/Factsheet+-+cardiac+MRI+for+myocarditis+COVID-19+vaccination+extension

So who else does Mockers think he knows better than? None other than the former President of the Australian Medical Association, Dr. Kerryn Phelps!

Not just her experiencing a COVID vaccine related injury. But her wife too! Two injuries in the same household! How could this possibly happen when Mockers tells us there have been "Zero" complications to the vaccines?! Surely if the vaccine injuries/deaths were so "rare", it would be statistically improbable that there would be two in the same household?!

Didn't say that. Stop taking me out of context to try and win a point.

Or perhaps, possibly, they're not as "rare" as Mockers falsely claims?

They are, and you just proved it.

 

[mockingbirdred]

I'm not expecting Mockers to watch the above video as his world view would be smashed to smithereens, but I would strongly encourage others to do so. And I would particularly pay close attention to around 2:10 onwards. Because that important question asked by the anchor is why Mockers falsely believes the bit in bold below...

Yep, I did, and I caught this bit "they were told not to say anything that might impede the government's rollout of the vaccines, and they took that to mean they weren't to speak about it publicly".

So, firstly, "they took that to mean" is doing a fair amount of heavy lifting here. So nobody explicitly told them not to speak out about it publicly, is what we can glean from that statement. And as for being told not to do anything that would impede the rollout - fucking good! Nor should they. The data demonstrates that in the vast, vast majority of cases the vaccines are perfectly safe and time has shown that to be true. We got out of the pandemic when we did because of our uptake in vaccinations - that wouldn't have been possible, or at the very least it would have been much more difficult with a load of uninformed people speaking out against it in direct contradiction to the evidence at a time when misinformation and scaremongering was absolutely rampant on social media - and still is.

Well Mockers, if you knew what a Life Scientist was, you might have enough of a clue to not have such a grossly misinformed opinion as you do now. Hell, if you were one, instead of a digital effects person, then you might even understand why your position is laughably delusional.

Oh dear. Please stop taking me out of context, and don't sink to the level of ad hominems - I genuinely held you in a higher regard than that. As for "digital effects person" - yes, and I'm also employed full time as a programme leader at a university - teaching "digital effects" - so lets not pretend that I have no academic authority to talk about research, because that would be childish and extremely silly.

I know what life sciences are. I'm - again, clearly, I thought - questioning your use of the phrase "life sciences academic" as though that is somehow separate to the rest of how academia works. It isn't - the framework of publishing research is exactly the same whether you're a biochemist, astronomer, social scientist or professor in sports rehab. There is absolutely no difference and just because my academic field isn't in "life sciences" (see what I did there?) that doesn't mean that I don't know how to read and interpret information in academic journals. I might not be able to comment on the particular details of an article because I have no knowledge of the field, but I can 100% comment on the fact that someone has published an abstract with no verification, for example, or that a study isn't properly peer reviewed, because that occurs in every field of academia. I don;t need to be a biochemist to look at a paper and go "there are no citations" or "this is just an abstract, where's the data?". You don;t even need to be a fucking academic to do that, it's not like it's difficult.

The claim that there are no reviews above is in fact a lie.

Despite the lack of doctors and scientists speaking out for fear of the regulatory reprisal intimated by the news anchor and Dr. Phelps, fortunately there are more and more who are speaking out & publishing about the links:

Peer reviewed.

Peer reviewed.

Peer reviewed.

Peer reviewed. Likely underestimating the effect given study limitations & short duration.

That's just for the Myocarditis links. I've already shared the peer reviewed immune tolerance impacts of elevated IgG4 from the mRNA vaccines upthread. And the DNA contamination in the mRNA vaccines.

First paper:

From the introduction: "The rapid development and global deployment of Coronavirus Disease 2019 (COVID-19) vaccines based on mRNA technology has been one of the outstanding successes of the response to the Severe Acute Respiratory Syndrome Coronavirus 2 (SARS-CoV-2) pandemic. Licensed for human use for the first time in the pandemic, mRNA vaccines have proven highly effective at preventing severe morbidity and mortality from SARS-CoV-2 infection not only against the original Wuhan strain but subsequent variants of concern"

From the results: "In conclusion, our study provides estimates of the excess risk of an episode of a hospital admitted episode of myocarditis after a third dose of an mRNA vaccine in England which in 16 to 39 year olds was 2.5 and 4.5 per million for the BNT162b2 and mRNA-1273 vaccines, respectively."

Again, you're posting studies that just confirm exactly what I'm saying. You're making my points for me.

Second paper:

The title is "SARS-CoV-2 Vaccination and Myocarditis in a Nordic Cohort Study of 23 Million Residents" - let's just bear that number, 23 million, in mind before we read it shall we?
From the results: "Among 23 122 522 Nordic residents (81% vaccinated by study end; 50.2% female), 1077 incident myocarditis events and 1149 incident pericarditis events were identified."

THAT'S 0.004% OF PEOPLE.

I'll leave the last word to the conclusion of the paper: "Myocarditis after mRNA vaccination was rare in this study cohort and even among young males. The risk of myocarditis following the mRNA vaccines has been evaluated by the US Food and Drug Administration, which concluded that the benefits of vaccination outweigh the risks and fully authorized the use of mRNA-1273 in persons 18 years or older and BNT162b2 in persons 16 years or older. In addition, BNT162b2 is authorized for emergency use in children 5 years or older.20,21 The European Medicines Agency concluded that the benefits of vaccination outweigh the risks and approved mRNA-1273 for use in persons 12 years or older and BNT162b2 for those 5 years or older.22,23 In addition, a comment published by the American College of Cardiology24 evaluated vaccine-associated myocarditis risk and concluded that the benefits of vaccination outweigh the risks. As of January 2022, there have been nearly 5.8 million deaths associated with COVID-19 worldwide since the start of the pandemic.25 All currently available SARS-CoV-2 mRNA vaccines are highly effective against severe COVID-19 and provide some protection against transmission and infection."

Not going to bother reading the last two papers, because I've made my point. Or rather, you have.

 

[mockingbirdred]

This, above, is the most criminally negligent rhetoric. "Billions of doses administered and zero complications". Even if that were true (narrator: it isn't), you don't fucking stick that shit into the wider population without long term clinical safety data. When you do a Life Sciences degree Mockers, you learn in Pharma 101, that 'long term' means 5-7 years through the four phases. At least.

Out of context, again.

If you do stick that shit into billions of people without long term clinical safety data, you end up with the excess deaths observed now in the likes of the EUROMOMO paediatric data, even years after the peak of the pandemic.

And back to the original point, you end up with more punters collapsing in the stands. Again, just to labour the point. That doesn't mean that *every* punter in the stands that collapses is because of the vaccine. But it is criminally negligent to bury one's head in the sand at this point and not investigate thoroughly and properly what the effect is.

The studies YOU LINKED UP are agreeing with me. Their findings are mirroring EXACTLY what I've been saying this entire time. I'm trying to think of a better, more simplistic way of saying it, but I can't. I cannot make this any easier to understand - the data you keep providing is reinforcing my argument, and is completely in line with the guidance and warnings about the potential risks of vaccines that we all knew about from literally the word go. I cannot work any harder to get you to understand this, so if you still think I'm wrong after this I literally have nothing left to say about it.

We get it Mockers. You were one of the most vociferous during the Pandemic about "The Science" and "The Cranks". We get you lined up diligently, put yourself at risk, perhaps encouraged others to do the same. It's unpalatable to consider that you might have put yourself and loved ones at risk, so it's easier to bury one's head in the sand and pretend there's nothing to see here. We understand that you have to double, triple and quadruple down as the data and evidence gradually crumbles the narrative around you. Some of us took the jabs, and then changed our view with the data. Others will have to die on the hill.

But do yourself a favour. Stop pretending you're as informed on this topic as you really are. The Australian Department Of Health and the former President Of the Australian Medical Association, among a growing list of others, disagree with you.

You would do well to listen...

For the last time, and then I really am not posting on this pointless thread any more - YOUR DATA BACKS MY ARGUMENT UP AND ALWAYS HAS.

You're claiming that I "put loved ones at risk" by encouraging them to have the vaccine is like saying I put them at risk by encouraging them to go outside, when there's a risk that a tree could fall on them and kill them. It's a completely garbage argument, not backed up by the data that you provided.

Billions - yes, billions - of people have had covid vaccinations and had no side effects whatsoever. A tiny, very, very rare number of people have - but that number is so low that it falls comfortably within the acceptable margin for risk.

Both clinical studies you have linked talked about the safety and effectiveness of the vaccine - go and read it for yourself, you don;t need to waste time arguing with me. Just simply go and read the articles for yourself, instead of reading the title and interpreting what their findings were based on that and that alone. You clearly haven't actually read the studies you;re linking, or you would have read the bits about vaccine safety and immediately dismissed them as not being suitable to make your point with.

You are really, really far down a rabbit hole mate, and your ability to make rational arguments has got a lot worse since the last time I engaged you on this subject. I don't remember you being as lax as to not actually read the articles you were linking up.

If you want to make the argument that 1 vaccine related death is 1 too many - fine. I can completely understand and justify why someone would think that, and I'd never argue that you weren't entitled to your view in that regard. I personally disagree, but that's because I take a much more pragmatic view on solving these issues.

But don't just fucking make stuff up, or deliberately take me out of context, or try and misrepresent medical studies thinking I won't be arsed to read them.

Now this really is my last post on this subject. I thought that in the intervening years since I last posted about this something more conclusive might have come up, but it's the exact same shit it was 3-4 years ago, and just as ill informed as it ever was.

 

[fergieschewy]

Top draw evidence based post as per usual Krom, thanks for taking the time to put all of that together.

I was surprised to see MBR not engage with your previous posts on this subject given he’s “all over” the covid and vaccine threads, apparently.

Like you touched on you’ll have people wanting to justify their decisions and willing to die on Mount Covid, so it won’t make much difference to him I think.

Also, and more importantly - It’s a shit show by whoever decided to move this thread that your post is basically in the forum bin and people will continue to be misinformed by not seeing it.

It seems as soon as anything that remotely contradicts the party line it gets booted over here which leads many to assume it’s because it’s bollox, why is that?

 

[fergieschewy]

If they are that safe and effective, how many would voluntarily have another? They only got the numbers they did last time because of bullying and propaganda.

 

[Old Iron Balls]

If they are that safe and effective, how many would voluntarily have another? They only got the numbers they did last time because of bullying and propaganda.

I’ll say again, many countries removed the AZ vaccine due to safety fears.

That’s all that needs to be said.

 

[fergieschewy]

I’ll say again, many countries removed the AZ vaccine due to safety fears.

That’s all that needs to be said.

Aren’t we committed to millions of MRNA vaccines moving forward? Can’t see a conflict of interest there .

 

[Old Iron Balls]

Aren’t we committed to millions of MRNA vaccines moving forward? Can’t see a conflict of interest there .

I’m tired of the subject now tbh, I made enough posts on here (under old account) and elsewhere about it. I do know many people regret their choice and wouldn’t have another though, maybe they’ll change their mind when the fearometer gets ramped up again.

For me not enough scrutiny was placed on Fauci, the NIH’s funding of Wuhan and the person who donated to the NIH.